Sam Penny (00:00)
Welcome back to Built to Sell Built to Buy. I'm your host Sam Penny and today's conversation sits in a place most founders and buyers actively avoid until it's too late. My guest Ryan Finley, founder of Freedom Financial Services Group. Ryan is a CPA, a certified valuation analyst and a forensic accountant who specializes in one of the most commercially dangerous intersections in business. It's divorce and ownership.
Now Ryan works with founders, investors and advisors when personal breakdown collides with enterprise value. Situation where businesses stall, deals die and years of hard work quietly leak out through legal blind spots. This episode, it's not about drama, it's about risk, structure and protecting what you've built. If you own a business, plan to buy one or want your company to survive beyond you, listen carefully. Ryan, welcome to the show.
Ryan Finley (00:53)
Thanks for having me, Sam.
Sam Penny (00:54)
Now, this isn't my normal podcast. ⁓ It's, you know, divorce and business and entrepreneurship is always a touchy kind of area. ⁓ But I think that it's an important conversation to have because it's not just divorce. It's also putting in a lot of strategies to protect assets as a founder. And most founders are very bullish about what they're going after, trying to grow at all costs without forgetting to put things away. But firstly, I want to understand.
How on earth did you get into this situation and this business that you started? Why divorce and working with founders?
Ryan Finley (01:36)
Great question. I get that asked quite frequently actually. my background ⁓ started off as an accountant in a public accounting firm. And then I went to work for a company buying golf courses and resorts and athletic clubs. And I was in the new business development group of that company. So that early training of going out and doing financial forecast and due diligence and then transitioning over. So.
You know, that helped a lot, valuing business and seeing what's important, seeing how important cash flow was and consistency and everything. So I did that for 10 years and then I was ⁓ transitioned over to development, developing, land developing and construction and would have been CFOs of residential development companies, ⁓ commercial development companies. ⁓ And then, you know, I was doing that and then ⁓
About six years ago, I had a friend that was a divorce coach. And she said, I've got this difficult case. know, the financials are complicated. The guy owns a business, you know, we're having trouble buying it and seeing what a distribution of assets would be. Can you help me with this? And so I helped her with this case. And then she had another one. then just, you know, I was.
I was good at taking a complex financial situation and explaining it to a person that was a non-financial person. And that was that kind of, I started helping her on in the evenings and on weekends and just kind of got into that. And so I've been doing this about six years now. And it's, ⁓ my background seems to fit everything that all that perfectly for, for, for this role.
Sam Penny (03:21)
So you've obviously now worked with many, many clients. Are there patterns that you often see throughout?
Ryan Finley (03:27)
There is, there's patterns. And if you think about divorce and no one likes divorce and you know, I meet some wonderful people in a bad situation. But you think about a divorce, this is your best friend that was your best friend for so many years and all of they're suing you for divorce and then you're having to divide everything up. There are patterns here.
anger a lot of times and then a lot of times there's businesses involved and how do we share assets and am I going to be okay after this and you know family concerns and things that that emotional baggage and emotional decisions and so if this was just if there wasn't the emotion part in it it would be easier to do but there's instead of a financial situation you've got emotional issues to deal with.
Sam Penny (04:24)
Now, obviously, divorce is a pretty terrible thing, and particularly when there's assets that are real personal assets like a business. How do you first go about understanding what that, I guess, that financial pool is, and then starting to work through that valuation of a business?
Ryan Finley (04:47)
Well, there's different roles that I have. As you mentioned, sometimes I represent a person, sometimes I'm doing litigation support, and then sometimes I come in to evaluate different appraisals. ⁓ know, depending upon what hat I'm wearing that day, if, know, for instance, so, but as a, an ⁓ evaluation analyst, what you're trying to do is get your arms around the business.
steady up the cash flow, get normalized expenses and try to figure out what the best value of that is. And that's what I would encourage most people to do. If the business, if you own the business before you get married, if you're getting married, mean, nobody plans to fail, nobody plans for a divorce, but I would suggest that somebody get a baseline valuation if.
for any major event in their life. If they're getting married and they have a business separate, get a valuation, get an independent valuation as you're going into that marriage. It does a couple of things. It establishes a premarital value and a baseline.
Sam Penny (05:56)
Obviously there's a lot of emotions that go into this. Does bringing that valuation in early take out a lot of the emotions when it comes to that separation?
Ryan Finley (06:07)
think it does because divorce, there's a lot of distrust in divorce. And if you can bring that valuation in early, then that kind of increases the trust or decreases the mistrust. And so there's things that if you bring it in early, then that shows good faith, know, it increases the trust. And so you're not hiding revenues. You're not delaying contracts.
not inflating expenses, those are the kind of things that help the process of divorce. I've seen many people try to devalue their company because they're going through a divorce. I take the approach of honesty and trust because if somebody hires me to come in, I'm going to find that stuff anyway. You can try to hide it. I'm going to find it. We're pretty good.
that stuff, really good at that stuff. you know, I would think the more open and honest, I think the more efficient the divorce will go, the more efficient business valuation go and the lower the legal expenses.
Sam Penny (07:18)
Trust is obviously a very big thing. when you've in a relationship, when you're in a marriage, you've got a founder who's working hard on building their business, building that asset. You've got the other person as well though, is there supporting you throughout that time. And I know running my own companies for 25 years, being a founder, you're not necessarily the nicest person to be around all the time because it's hard. You never switch off.
What kind of person starts to hide assets and you being a forensic accountant, you've seen it all. What would be the reasons when someone starts to perhaps hide assets, ⁓
manipulate what that valuation is. What is the, ⁓ what's the situation there?
Ryan Finley (08:08)
And you're right, when someone starts a business, it consumes your life. You're never off work, you're always working. Even when you're home, you're thinking about your business and things going on. And you have a spouse that's for the most part has a job or taking care of the family, doing other things, just as important. so, you do have, it starts getting, as the business builds up, people start.
If the marriage isn't going smoothly, they start playing, you know, what do I do? How can I preserve this for myself? And that's kind of when we see things that we see, you know, I've got a bunch of different stories. can give you examples, but you know, a couple of them are, you know, people postponing contracts or running personal expenses through the business or not disclosing all their revenue or, know, there's just a bunch of different things.
But it's kind of their planning for their divorce to be honest about it. And they're trying to preserve money that post divorce they can bring back in, you know, that they don't have to share because basically the business in most cases is a marital asset.
Sam Penny (09:21)
divorce is probably one of the greatest risks to a business, particularly in the continuity. The founder loses focus, they start to lose interest. They start to be very, ⁓ not that pleasant to be around in the workplace. From your seat, what do you see founders going through when they're going through one of these situations?
Ryan Finley (09:44)
Well, it's a major distraction. the thing that needs to happen in this that a lot of people lose focus on is that the business needs to survive this divorce. It's a difficult time for everybody, but the business needs to survive. And so the more they can keep business as usual and normal business with employees and contracts and customers and things like that, the better off everybody's going to be at the end. ⁓
But typically, would like to say that it's just a disagreement between the parties. But a lot of times, there's a third party involved, whether the spouse has a boyfriend or this one has a girlfriend or something like that. Sometimes that interferes with this process as well. And so you've got a business, you've got some emotional baggage that's really losing
the focus of the owner. on top of having to run the business, they're going to a divorce and they're having to worry about preservation of assets and everything like that. if somebody else is involved and that's even a bigger distraction. you know, the owners, instead of keeping their focus on the business, a lot of times there's different hurdles or distractions that they have to overcome in addition to running the business.
Sam Penny (11:13)
Are there any strategies you think that can really help the founder through this whole process to maintain focus, to maintain running that business and not necessarily having the business continue to keep expanding? But what should a founder do when they're going through this really difficult time?
Ryan Finley (11:35)
That's a difficult question because if it's possible to keep businesses normal and just keep it solid and going forward, that would be easy. But it's not that easy because there's emotional decisions involved. There's children. There's ⁓ potential spouse support. There may be things with the cash flow that affect the business. And in a division of assets,
Other than the business or maybe other assets in this marriage that they have to divide and there may be, you know, there's kids typically. So, you know, it's, it's the advice I would give an owner, you know, I tell people to try to take the emotion as much out of the equation as you can and just look at black and white, you know, what is a good business decision? I'm not trying to manipulate thing here, but just as a business owner.
what's the best business decision I can make, you know, taking all the other distractions out of the equation.
Sam Penny (12:43)
So that marital support that someone provides throughout the marriage often gets discounted, gets discredited. The founder says, this was all me, you have no right to it. Do you give any advice in those situations?
Ryan Finley (13:01)
Well, in most situations, the business would be a marital assets. so, you know, they do, there is support that the family obviously is successful because of the business and the sacrifices the owners made and the family's made and everything. But at the same time, you know, there is another spouse involved and there is, you know, who's made sacrifices as well, you know.
along the way. So, you know, I'm a business owner myself. I would like to preserve as much as I can, but at the same time, in all fairness, you try to, from a CDFA and a CPA perspective, you know, we still try to promote fairness. You know, I understand, you know, I would like to say there's a magic formula to preserve the business for the owner.
But at the same time, think fairness needs to be called into, know, truth here and just to make sure that everybody's taken care of. You know, if somebody gave up their career for someone else to run a business, you know, they don't have the means or the income to live the life that they've grown to as well. So, ⁓ you know.
There's no magic formula, I guess.
Sam Penny (14:29)
Obviously you're an accountant, not a psychologist, Ryan, but being able to take a lot of the emotions out of this whole conversation and between the two parties, is there a way where you can reduce the emotions, reduce people making stupid mistakes, being unfair to the other party?
Ryan Finley (14:32)
Thank God.
think so. think I do mediations as well, Sam. And so what I try to do is I have this big television screen and I put my spreadsheets up on this television screen. And I think when people can see it in black and white, if you do this, this is the cause and this is the effect. And this is how the math equation balances out. I think when they can see it in black and white,
and just see it in front of them, it helps kind of take the emotional equation out of the decision. you know, I try to promote that as much as possible, just saying, you know, if they're in a mediation, sometimes you get an offer over and they can't think clearly because they're so angry or they're so frustrated. And I try to get them just to, hey, look at this, here's what this means.
If we do this, then this is the effect of it. This is what you get, this is what they get, this is how it balances out.
Sam Penny (16:01)
Obviously a business is very much part of that person's who they are, their DNA. ⁓ Are there any real dangerous assumptions you think that the founder is trying to keep the business separate? ⁓ It's not part of the pool. What kind of assumptions do they make?
Ryan Finley (16:21)
That's a hard one to answer because it's a lot of them, I see it being difficult for them to separate the business because it's such a significant part of the marital asset a lot of times. And so I see owners doing things like manipulating documents or overstating expenses or not disclosing a contract or deferring revenue. Things like that, that, you know.
they normally wouldn't do and isn't a good business decision. And I would frown upon that and discourage that as much as possible because if you're going through a divorce and those kinds of things pop up, it's going to cause more legal expenses because then the attorneys and the forensic account and some places like that will dig in and dive even deeper. And that's more of a disruption for the business than if the things were.
clearly disclosed.
Sam Penny (17:17)
When it comes to ⁓ that, like you said, you're doing mediations, you're putting the spreadsheet, the balance sheet up on the screen. ⁓ And obviously numbers don't lie, but obviously in a lot of circumstances they do. ⁓ When we're going through this process, and you must see it quite often where the non-founder party of this relationship is really trying to force the sale of a business.
because the most important thing is to try and retain that asset, the business, to keep running. Under what circumstances do you really see where there is a foresale of the business?
Ryan Finley (17:56)
Yeah, I don't see that very often because I think most judges and mediators say, know, don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg because, you know, there's it's such a big part of the asset. You want to keep that going. And, you know, a lot of the small businesses, it's the value is based upon the owner and their knowledge and their experience and their some of them may have professional licenses. So if you
sell the business in those situations then a lot of times it decreases the value so you don't have the asset typically that you would. So you know I would encourage people to find another way to distribute value you know if there's a different asset you know where the owner keeps the asset in an exchange maybe there's a property or some 401ks or some other investments that can be given to the spouse to
offset that value when you start dividing the marital estate, what would an equitable distribution of that be? Well, if you put the business in spouse one's column and give some of the other assets to spouse two, then that may be a better way to divide the assets and a better way to keep the business alive. Because the... ⁓
Divorce affects other people too. You've got employees in the business, you've got customers, you've got other owners. There's things that, know, that if that business gets hurt, it affects other people.
Sam Penny (19:31)
entrepreneurs are a very unique breeder person. ⁓ They often think that it's all them, ⁓ nobody else contributed. ⁓ At what point do you need to talk a founder down from saying that there was actually two of you in this whole relationship, two of you building this business? What words of advice do you give to that founder at that time?
Ryan Finley (19:57)
I see that a lot and that's a hard conversation to have because you're right, because a lot of it's built on their expertise and their knowledge and everything. But you're right, there is another person that has sacrificed a lot for the success of that business. And so, you you do need to remind them that you couldn't, you wouldn't have the time, you you wouldn't be able to do the things you're doing without that support. And, you know,
A lot of them fail to recognize that. A lot of them it's hard for them to realize that. ⁓ But I see that quite frequently. That's a hard conversation to have. And sometimes you just have to say, it is a marital asset. And the best thing to do in the state or country or region we're in, here's how the judge is going to see it. So we can either divide this.
friendly or we can take it to the judge and have the judge do it. And it may not turn out as well if we go that far.
Sam Penny (21:03)
Okay, let's talk about that because obviously divorce wipes hundreds of thousands of dollars out of the whole marital pool. And you see, and you must see it a lot where two warring parties, because they are, you know, they can be at war at times where this whole process can last for a couple of years, even a few years. How do you try and head that off early on ⁓ in the process, making them realize that
If we keep going on like this, we're going to wipe a few hundred thousand dollars off what you're potentially going to share.
Ryan Finley (21:38)
You're exactly right, Sam, because it usually takes two years and it usually affects a couple of hundred thousand. And it's right because they have a finite amount of assets, you know, and that they're trying to divide. And that keeps getting decreased by, you know, the divorce, the legal fees, you know, the professional fees, the distractions from the business where you're not able to run the business. So you're actually, by the time this is over,
the division of assets is much smaller because of the because it's dragged out because of the distractions because of the legal fees, know, just things that that happen. if you know, if up front, you know, I talked initially about doing an appraisal when they got married, you know, and if you could do an appraisal, at least an independent appraisal, when you start going through this process, at least you would have your arms around.
Kind of what you're arguing over, you know, and not have to go back and forth with the attorneys as much.
Sam Penny (22:42)
the worst outcome in the whole process is ending up in trial. What is it that sees people ending up before a judge?
Ryan Finley (22:50)
Thankfully, a lot of them don't get that far because, you know, they do realize cooler heads prevail eventually that, you know, hey, this has cost me this much today. If we go to trial, it's going to be this much more or, you know, we can sit down and finally negotiate. So it's kind of like, you know, finally someone's some of these people are starting when they get that far down the road, they start getting some sense is that, you know,
If I don't divide this now, the outcome may be the same, but we may have less to divide. And it's going to be a whole lot more legal expenses. you know, thankfully, you know, maybe 10 or 15 or percent of these actually go to trial, not as many of them go to trial as you would expect.
Sam Penny (23:39)
But you must see it so often, people squabbling over something so small that ends up going to court, where they're going to spend $50,000, $100,000 on legal fees, barristers, I assume you call them barristers in the US. How do you talk people off the edge of going to trial over something that the cost benefit does not ⁓ outweigh the outcome?
Ryan Finley (24:07)
And that's the most frustrating thing, Sam, is ⁓ sometimes you get a spouse that is so angry that their spouse is leaving them. It's more like a scorched earth. They don't care what it costs. They're just, out to get even. know, it's, I'm gonna, I'm hurting, so I'm gonna hurt you. And you see that and you try to get through that. And that's where we need the therapist. You know, it's...
I'm a financial guy, I'm not a therapist, but a lot of times it's hard to get to that. And you keep trying to explain to them that this is not a good decision for you. So let's go back to the spreadsheet. If you go this far, your assets are going to be this. You're fighting diminishing returns on what you're throwing out there. But sometimes it's...
Again, we've talked about taking the emotion out of these decisions and sometimes there's just so much anger that the emotion won't come out. it's more of, like I said, it's more to prove a point or to get even. And I hate those cases because nobody wins. Nobody wins except the attorneys and the analysts, you know?
Sam Penny (25:29)
There must be a lot of irrational decision making that goes on, not just from the founder, but from the other side. Give me some examples of some of the absolutely ludicrous ⁓ things or decisions that people have made.
Ryan Finley (25:43)
I've got some good ones. I'll tell you one from an owner's perspective is that I had an owner that overpaid his IRS taxes to buy a million dollars. And so his thought behind it was, you know, I'm going to, we're going to file this tax return. The divorce is going to be filed. Then I'm going to file an admitted tax return and get that money back. You know, but then when you catch somebody doing that, it's just, you know, we talk about trust again.
There's no trust. then that shows there's a sign to manipulate the divorce. And then once that happened, then the legal fees, what else is he hiding? What else is out there? So then it just got unbearable on a situation like that. Other cases, I've seen what we call dissipation of assets where
An owner will have in this situation that I'm thinking of had a girlfriend or two and was spending a lot of the business money supporting that girlfriend. know, and so that's marital money going for a non-marital purpose, which is dissipation. And it's also coming out of the business. it's, you know, those are things that are really bad decisions.
In addition to the infidelity, just blatantly throw it into the spouse's face. I'm doing this and I've got it here. It's in my books. I've spent money on this person. I've done this. We've taken these trips. I see that a lot actually where somebody's using business money to entertain somebody they shouldn't. Trips and gifts and things like that.
Sam Penny (27:37)
Obviously you're an accountant where your world, you would love it to be black and white. You would love it to all show on a balance sheet or a profit and loss or a cash flow where the numbers don't lie. the main theme that you've been speaking about today has been trust. But it's very difficult to have trust when you've got these kinds of situations going through. I assume then that it's
When there is no trust set up right at the start of these proceedings of a split of a separation, are they the ones that always go through to trial or is there a way where you can head it off early and make this ⁓ come to a completion very fast?
Ryan Finley (28:26)
Yeah, those are the ones that have a higher percentage to go to trial. But as I mentioned earlier, most of them last long enough and go through mediation two or three times that they finally come to a resolution. you know, there is, if it is truly a divorce, Sam, and it's just two people that just don't get along, you know, and if they're able to communicate, and I do have a lot of these too.
We're just going to throw everything out there. We're going to divide it and we're going to do fair. We're going to have a fair and equitable distribution of our assets. We're going to talk about our parenting plan, child support, everything's on the table. Those are the ones that are the easiest to go through and they're the shortest ones. One of the things we haven't mentioned through this is if there's two spouses involved, if there's kids involved, these spouses still have the parent to get.
you know, and if you're butting heads and if you're hating each other, it's, you still have to, the parent, you have to go to football games and basketball games and cheerleading practice and things like that and see that other person. And it's just, the more that they can communicate and just put everything on the table and just negotiate this thing and be fair, the better life is for them because you know, it's, there's,
post divorce they're still alive, still kids, they're still relationships. You have friends with them, have family with them, you have kids with them. They're still gonna be a part of your life.
Sam Penny (30:01)
⁓ running a business takes an immense toll on your purse on you as the founder, a relationship, the family life, but also then this whole separation process goes through everything and takes a significant toll on everybody around you, employees, kids, both parties. How do you ensure that the personal disruption is minimized through the
through all of this.
Ryan Finley (30:31)
I think it's communication and inclusion, Sam, to be that best answer because these owners aren't working 40 hours, they're working 70 hours, 80 hours, and it does take away from family time. So I think if they're able to communicate with their spouse and just say, hey, here's what my week looks like, here's what I've got going on, here's how the business is doing, the business, here's what...
a big project we had when we just completed, here's how our year was. I think just being able to communicate and to let them know including them in your business. I think that helps more of an understanding on why you're away from home or why things are tough. And I think it's my best advice for them.
Sam Penny (31:24)
Have you seen any situations where the business has been stronger coming out of a divorce?
Ryan Finley (31:29)
not from my personal experience, not, haven't, haven't, because it's, and maybe it gets back to that after a year or two, but immediately I would say no, because I think, I think a divorce is very hard on a business. Most businesses, most small businesses. And there's some that are large enough that it may not, they may have enough people running them where it wouldn't be.
be a much of a distraction for them. But I think most small businesses, it's another distraction that it takes a toll on the business and a toll on the owner. And I think it may take a couple of years after that to kind of get things back to normal and get their customers going and get their everything, the employees satisfied and situated and settled. It's just, I think it's a wound that takes a little bit to heal is the best way I can say it.
Sam Penny (32:28)
As a founder, we're always trying to minimize risk and identify all the things that could be damaging to the business. I assume that we're not throwing into the mix the risk of a divorce. And even if it's not on the radar, do you find that pretty much all entrepreneurs never plan for it?
Ryan Finley (32:49)
I would say it's 90 % true or 100 % true or 99 % true. I don't think anybody plans for a divorce. And I think a lot of times that you don't realize the situation. I think sometimes one spouse may think things are okay and the other spouse drops a bomb on them and says, no, you're not home, you're not doing these things, you're not paying attention to kids, I'm doing all the housework. I'm not happy.
And I think, like I said, sometimes they may not see it ⁓ But you're right, nobody plans for a divorce. And I wish it wasn't part of the equation, but unfortunately it is.
Sam Penny (33:34)
A great strategy, and you would know Ryan being an accountant, increasing the valuation of a business is all around key person risk and making the business founder independent. I always teach that strategy to every founder to try and make themselves independent from the business, from the day to day. Do you see that as a key strategy when this unfortunate situation arises?
Ryan Finley (34:01)
I agree with you. wish more of them would take that advice, Sam. I really do. Because if they were more independent from the business, then the business could operate more on its own. It wouldn't be as dependent upon the owner and wouldn't be, and a divorce wouldn't be as big of a distraction as it is most of the time.
Sam Penny (34:22)
effectively, ⁓ Ryan, when we're going through the whole separation, going through the divorce, ⁓ being able to minimise the disruption to a business, if we build a business effectively that we're wanting to sell, where we're putting in place a lot of these strategies of key person risk, ⁓ building the IP, the assets, all of those. ⁓
great things that go into a business. Because obviously when we sell a business, we're removing that founder from the whole process. If we set a business up right at the start to one day be sold, to put in all of those right structures in place, is that, I guess we can't say the golden bullet to make this process a lot easier.
But is that something every founder should really put in place right from the start, regardless of whether there is a divorce on the horizon or even if they're not planning for it, but always building a business that they could easily just open the books, there you go, if they're selling it to someone else.
Ryan Finley (35:35)
think that should be the goal of every entrepreneur, I think, because you should have some type of exit strategy out of your business. And I think that's what you're describing, where I can build this up 20 years and I can sell it and retire or start another business, whatever I want to do. But that gives me an exit strategy at the end where it's not as depending upon me, but it's just, think a lot of these businesses that go into divorce that I handle are
more hands-on to get to that point. I think that's the eventual goal, I think they're heading down that road. you're right, that is the eventual goal, I think, of what every entrepreneur should shoot for. the business has evaluation, we're able to, if a divorce comes up, you're able to split that asset fairly.
Easily.
Sam Penny (36:31)
All right, before we wrap up, Ryan, what do you think are three great strategies, ⁓ pieces of advice that you have to any founder, but also to the other party?
Ryan Finley (36:40)
Three strategies. I think putting things, putting, disclosing everything. think being as upfront as you can on your business. A lot of people will probably disagree with me on that because they're trying to preserve their business. They wanna lower the valuation of the business so they'll get a bigger piece of the pie. I think...
You know, if you're going through a divorce and again, we talk about trust and emotions and things like that. The more you can develop trust and maintain trust between you and your spouse and the attorneys and everybody involved. I think it makes it a cleaner and easier process. Emotion, you know, if we can.
Go back to making this more of a business decision instead of an emotional decision and be able to take that out of the equation. I think that's probably the second one. And then third is, you you do have to parent with these people, with your spouse. And so I would keep that in mind too, that if you're going through a divorce, you're gonna have kids together. This is something that you're gonna be on at weddings and grand babies and things like that. ⁓
that you're gonna have to deal with the rest of your life.
Sam Penny (38:04)
Ryan, I really appreciate that you've come from a position of fairness as opposed to ⁓ effectively representing the asshole entrepreneurs. ⁓ Because I'll tell you what, there are a lot of them out there, but also on the other side, there can be assholes in a lot of this. I really appreciate the approach that you take in fairness in ⁓ trying to bring truth and trust throughout the entire process.
Ryan Finley (38:13)
Okay.
Thanks Sam, I appreciate that. you when you invited me on the show, was...
I was thinking about what we would talk about and everything and I do see a lot of owners and there are a lot of ways to manipulate valuations and businesses, things like that. I just, it's hard for me when I represent both sides to be able to suggest that or things. Honesty is, in my opinion, is probably the easiest and best way to go through this.
It's hard to be, know, there was a lot of things, you know, if I was in their shoes.
there was things I would, know, that would be hard to not do. If that makes sense.
Sam Penny (39:26)
Absolutely. Ryan, this has been a powerful but also a very necessary conversation. What stands out is how quietly value is lost, not through bad strategy, but through unplanned life events and structural blind spots.
This isn't about fears, it's about ownership, foresight, and protecting years of work. Now, for anyone listening who owns a business, plans to buy one, or wants their company to survive beyond them, this episode should change how you think about risk. Now, Ryan, where can people learn more about your work or connect with you at Freedom Financial Services Group?
Ryan Finley (40:01)
Thanks Sam, thanks for having me on the show today, I appreciate it. The best way to reach me is probably through my website, which is www.freedomfsg.com my email is ryan@freedomfsg.com.
Sam Penny (40:15)
Excellent. I'll make sure I put all those links into the show notes. And thanks for joining us on Built to Sell Built to Buy. I'm Sam Penny. And this is a work that separates fragile businesses from durable ones.
