Sam Penny (00:00)
Most founders think the goal is control. You build something from nothing. You make every decision. You carry the weight. Then one day someone bigger walks in with capital, capability, scale, and you make a deal because growth demands it. But here's the question nobody asks. What does it feel like when the business is no longer yours? Today's guest has lived both sides. She'd scaled New Age Caravans into a powerhouse, brought in Walkinshaw and ultimately stepped away. And now
She's back in the arena acquiring one of the most talked about brands in the industry, Bruder X, a business that depending on who you ask was either misunderstood or under pressure. This isn't a conversation about caravans. This is a conversation about control versus scale, timing versus ego and what kind of founder walks back into the fire. Gabby Montagnese, welcome to the show.
Gabby Montagnese (00:51)
Thank
Thank you, Sam. That was a great intro. Thanks for having me. I loved it. I loved it. It was great.
Sam Penny (00:56)
I love doing my intros. Gabby, this
is going to be an absolutely fascinating conversation. Firstly, you're in an Australian time zone, which always helps me considering most of my guests are in the US or Europe, but you've come from an amazing ⁓ place of proof. You created something called New Age Caravans, but it didn't start as a machine. It started something small. Now, when you...
co-founded New Age Caravans. What was it that you saw that others necessarily didn't see back then?
Gabby Montagnese (01:34)
lot of focus on customers, customers voice, customer service, process, ⁓ technology, automation, lean manufacturing, and also the scalability of such an awesome industry like could actually see the opportunity for growth and scalability.
And I knew as soon as we were to target, essentially I was talking to a female buyer at one point and then the outside of the van was talking to a male buyer. But as soon as we were aligned and how we're talking to a consumer, that was it. It was on. So it was a lot of fun.
Sam Penny (02:05)
So in those early years then, what do you think was really your unfair advantage?
Gabby Montagnese (02:11)
My unfair advantage was probably the fact that I spent so much time wanting to hear customers. I feel like I wanted to get at the forefront. I went to the caravan parks. I walked in all the vans. I went to the caravan shows. I want to talk to consumers on the sites and on the stands. And the biggest thing for me was I wasn't scared to approach a customer. So I was never worried that my product was going to get for a customer and they'd want to have a go at me about something. I never had that fear. I backed the brand, I backed the quality. So I was happy to get before a customer saying, tell me what do you
about my product, what do you not like about my product and then what do you think about ABC? I did that a lot and I spent a lot of time building community by way of like tribe events and making sure we had a really good following and we always did right by people. It was essentially the simple ingredients.
Sam Penny (02:58)
Gabby, every founder, they've really got some non-negotiables. What were your non-negotiables?
Gabby Montagnese (03:05)
Looking after people is one, absolutely. So people for me is my greatest asset always has been, but looking after people in all ways, and I always say this to my team, I do it now, everything we do in the way that we represent has to be seen as an extension of us. So we have that in our mind at the forefront every single time we can ever go wrong, because if it's an extension of you, you're always going to be doing the right thing. ⁓ So for sure, it's absolutely customers and back in our word, we don't just say we're going to call you back if we don't, we must call you back. So if we say we're going to do something, we must alert.
run that so that was absolutely non-negotiables and just turning up showing up turning up and doing what you're going to say you're to do put a product on the market that is compliant you know backing your word making sure the service is what they deserve for probably one of the greatest investments they're to make outside of their family home or their homes so just giving them the experience they deserve essentially
Sam Penny (03:57)
For the listener, I think it's important to give some perspective on the caravan industry here in Australia. The Australian manufacturing component is worth about $10 billion a year. And New Age, you started that 2009, by about 2015, 2016, you were top five manufacturer in Australia. Some reports put you at number two. Now at its peak, what...
actually made the business work.
Gabby Montagnese (04:31)
I think it was a combination of a well thought through strategy, to be fair.
It wasn't as easy as just turning something on the results came in six months. It was like a couple years of a strategy and we executed that relatively well. Well, really on point. So it was expanding the range. was reading the markets. was knowing where you wanted to play in those markets, looking at overseas trends, bringing those at the forefront of the Australian market and essentially making the decision to be brave enough to lead the way and not follow. That's essentially what I did do. I looked at all the markets that were really developed
and what they did well around customer service and I started to play in that space the same way. I brought all that into the RV industry and then we basically, you know, we manned the place up. We got the exec team in, we got the management teams in, we got the processes, we got the strategy down pat and we rolled out a series of a combination of things at once. It was standalone dealerships where I pretty much said to dealers, know, we can make money just backing our own brand. So we went standalone. We offered products in all segments. That was the other one and we
We
backed our service and our warranty and we rolled out a program like Refer a Friend program which literally had consumers being at the forefront of running our marketing campaigns. was just unbelievable to watch. Unbelievable.
Sam Penny (05:48)
So if I walked the factory floor back then, say 2016, what would I have felt?
Gabby Montagnese (05:55)
You would have ⁓ felt a whole lot of love for a whole lot of things that we do well, to be fair. was like 250 staff, was like a well-oiled machine. We basically at that point manufactured 45 caravans a week, so was like 100 vans on the line.
Sam Penny (06:00)
Ha ha ha!
Gabby Montagnese (06:10)
Yeah, it was just a beautiful, beautiful environment in the office and obviously on the floor, but it was a bit like a humming machine. It just, it ran, know, nine vans on, nine vans off every single day. And we did it well. We had a culture where people knew what we were doing. They understood our purpose. We had customers entrenched in that culture and everything we did was an absolute extension of the people that we are.
Sam Penny (06:33)
Obviously it was such a meteoric rise for New Age 2009 founding 2015 2016 like you just said churning out 45 caravans a week now growth really does create a ceiling and then capital does remove it but it never comes for free. Take me to the moment when did Walkinshaw first come onto the radar for you.
Gabby Montagnese (06:58)
Yeah, so a few buyers around me to be fair around 2014-15. Wilkishore came to me around 2015. What I liked about what Wilkishore offered was ⁓ the aspects around innovation. So where I sort of felt like I'd grown the business to almost the ceiling as you suggested before was we couldn't go any further than where we were based in the innovation we had available to us within the industry. And what Wilkishore brought in was world class OEM could basically deliver innovation. Well, that was the conversations we
had and it sort of seemed like a really great relationship and a way to progress forward. So we basically had you know a series of months would have been six nine months of just having ⁓ chats and doing due diligence and then we we landed on a plan where we thought we could continue to grow this brand further.
Sam Penny (07:47)
Now, Walkinshaw they're very well known for motor racing, for motorsport, for high performance vehicles. And to see this partnership with New Age Caravans to many people doesn't make sense. So what was it about New Age that made them want in?
Gabby Montagnese (08:04)
So for the guys it was around diversification because they adjust a lot of the changes in their automotive relationships and contracts it hits around HSV and Holden changes. They were basically doing a lot of the conversion stuff overseas and they lost a little bit of business. So Wilkishore were looking for how it is that they could add value to similar products or light products and where they could add on some of the innovation that were running in automotive into Caravan. So that was, think, where the attraction had started. ⁓
And I think it made sense in the logics of how it played out. Probably didn't go according to plan, I suppose, by way of how they thought innovation would run on the floor. And automotive manufacturing processes are very different to carrier manufacturing processes. So I think it was a bit challenging to integrate some of that innovation on the floor. But from a strategic point of view, it made total sense. So that was the introduction.
Sam Penny (08:53)
Let's be real,
let's be real, were you nervous at all about signing that deal?
And what was it?
Gabby Montagnese (08:59)
Well, I think you, you know, you pretty much identify yourself based on a business you've spent so much time in sacrifice, sweat, tears, you sell a house for you, invest everything you have into it. you know, I put everything I'd gone through divorce here and you so many elements of your life that are just rolled up in an identity that you're so set with the business. And I'd literally put everything I had into this business. And so then, you know, what the guys were telling me was great for consumers was great for customers, great
for employees and was great for the industry. Yes, the industry needs innovation. It needs better controls, needs better compliance. I was all for it. But personally, it was quite difficult to say, this is a baby you've built and it's not broken, right? And you're going to bolt on for the greater good of scalability and growth. And, you know, it starts to sort of shift in the way that it looks and its elements. And it's quite a difficult thing to stand by and watch, to be fair. Yep. I was nervous. I was.
Sam Penny (09:54)
Look, I've
I've built businesses for the last 25 years and some of them I've sold off and it just feels like you're losing a baby. of part of your heart is going with it. The day that deal was done, what changed for you?
Gabby Montagnese (10:14)
what changed for me maybe a psychological bit of a shift i feel like you're in a business on your own it all sits on you it can be a lonely place owning a business like it really can all the pressures you carry and juggling all aspects of life and business and people relying on you to show up and turn up and deliver so i felt a little bit of relief knowing i had some support behind me by way of the Wilkinshire crew and the board and they're really smart people i've sat around going these people are lot smarter than me look i did i did one of those looks like
So I felt a sense of support in that way. ⁓ So that was probably a psychological shift, I'd call it. Yeah, that's what I felt that day. And I was excited about what they'd bring to, I really was. I was excited about the innovation they'd brought on.
Sam Penny (10:53)
I couldn't-
A good entrepreneur, Gabby, like yourself, always surrounds them with people smarter than themselves. They never want to be the smartest person in the room. Is that how you always approach business?
Gabby Montagnese (11:11)
It is absolutely I will look at the things when I don't like doing and find someone who could do better than me. I look at the things I'm not that good at and find someone who could do better than me. And I always say like I'm as good as the people that are standing beside me or I'm just not that good. Right. So absolutely I'm all for it and there's nothing wrong in being honest and vulnerable around it and saying you're better at finances is why you're the CFO. Run it 100 % Yes.
Sam Penny (11:37)
This partnership with Walkinshaw did you find that there were times where your vision and theirs didn't align?
Gabby Montagnese (11:44)
Yes, many.
Sam Penny (11:47)
And then give me an example
of ⁓ one or two.
Gabby Montagnese (11:51)
So I think it's just knowing when it's time to just assess a situation or for this example as a product and say, we've invested a lot of R &D in this, there's a lot of funds in this and we've just missed the mark. We've over engineered it, we spent too much money in it, you're never going to get a return investment, customers don't like it, it hasn't landed for dealers. And I was really like, that never happened to me before firstly, but I was really open and honest about those conversations.
Whereas I think if you're operating from a different perspective where I think for the Wilkishore team, which I can understand is like the first project they're going to deliver the market that has their name on it. So they want to deliver it at any cost.
And I think for me it was just, yeah, we're at Lockerheads on a couple of different products. And the way that they strategically should be rolled into the industry and the price point and a little bit around dealer management. Caravan industry and the way that I had built relationships with my dealers was very different to, I suppose, what they're used to in automotive space. So they're a couple, to be fair.
Sam Penny (12:52)
Was there a point, Gabby, where you just go, all right, it's time for me to exit.
Gabby Montagnese (12:58)
I did this is exactly what I did 2018 ⁓
probably around mid year, my dad had obviously been diagnosed with cancer as well, so there's a couple of different factors for me, but I basically realised that I was coming into the office, driving into the driveway park in the car, and I just didn't have the same passion. You know, I just felt like I didn't want to be here and I'd never had that experience in the 10 or 15 years before, so I just felt like it wasn't mine anymore once the third tranche had gone through. So at that point, it was time for me to go and just a little bit of a lack of alignment in the way that we are as people, which is perfectly fine, it happens in business, you just got to
know at what point do you exit well and leave the business in good hands so at that point I brought in another CEO and transitioned them in so we did it the right way ⁓ but yeah it's a it's a day you wake up and you know it's time to go yep
Sam Penny (13:47)
Is there anything you'd do differently about your exit with New Age?
Gabby Montagnese (13:50)
Yes, I wouldn't have exited. would have basically managed the entire way the deal was done differently. The conversations that should have been had at the boardroom table, the opting out of the trenches, I would have done differently. A whole host of things I would have done differently. I think once you've gone through an acquisition like that at such a scale, a scale like that, and also a company like that, then I feel like I now have the expertise to be able to do with that again. But I think the first time you just think like you're surrounded by all these other people that know best. So what would you know? And they're whole lot smarter than you.
like no I'd stick to the things I intuitively knew well that was the industry that was the customers that was my people and that was the business and a lot of the times I took a seat and sat silent on things that I knew were probably not the best way to go or I lost an argument in yep
Sam Penny (14:35)
Gabby, I want to talk briefly about that moment you left ⁓ New Age. Because obviously this was a baby that ⁓ you gave birth to effectively. Who were you the day after you left?
Gabby Montagnese (14:49)
I was a mum of a teenage boy and a little baby in a very lost place. You know, you get up every day and you go somewhere, you have a sense of purpose, you a sense of belonging. ⁓ I was tired and exhausted. I knew I needed a break.
I was sort of watching my life a bit like I was out of body and like, what am I doing now? Like, what do do now? You you spend so much time with people every single day and we had a whole lot of fun and success and now I'm in a house, beautiful house here. That's great. But, you know, what's my sense of purpose here? What am I here to do for the rest of my life? I was only like mid thirties when I'd left. So was quite young. And I knew I wasn't done and retired. I knew that. But I was emotionally, mentally, extremely exhausted. So I knew
need to take a break. Yep, it's quite stressful time to be honest.
Sam Penny (15:41)
So was it a... Was
it a feeling of relief or loss?
Gabby Montagnese (15:47)
I reckon a bit of both. think it's like you go through like relief, loss and then grief almost. And then you assess all the lessons and the learnings because the development and the growth and the healing in that is really important or you couldn't come back and reinvent yourself a second time around, right? So I spent a whole lot of time looking at the lessons and where are the things I need to improve on and what things I would have done differently to make sure that my second version is well and truly clear on its purpose and what I'm here for. Yeah.
It's a whole lot of range of emotions everything is.
Sam Penny (16:17)
Damn.
What part of you then had to change?
Gabby Montagnese (16:24)
So I think one of the most disappointing things I felt was that you have this realization, you would know this given the amount of business you've said you've had, but you have this realization moment where you see that people are also connecting with you based on what you do or what you have.
And in the day that that thing's gone, you then see all the changes in all the relationships that you once had every single day. So it's a big pill to swallow because you actually think that people are there for you as a person, but in actual fact, sometimes they're not. They're actually there for the business or what you're giving them or the transaction. And I think one of the biggest lessons I learned is the aspect of more around people and honouring myself more this time around as a priority, as opposed to everyone else, because I did everyone else
first to the detriment of myself. I stayed longer in the business than I wanted to. I wanted to leave earlier and I didn't for the people and the dealers and I stayed longer. This time around, no, I wanted myself first and everything else sort of follows. So my biggest takeout was I stayed longer, didn't put myself first and then that sort of bit me a little bit later on.
Sam Penny (17:32)
Gabby, I wanted to now shift the focus and gears into the industry that you've been part of for about 15, 17 years. The Australian manufacturing industry specifically related to RVs, caravans as we call them here in Australia, we've seen a lot of consolidation in this industry of late. We've seen some brands struggling, we've seen assets changing hands.
Obviously, for those people in Australia, we saw the demise of Zone with a $44 million debt. What is actually happening beneath the surface here in Australia?
Gabby Montagnese (18:10)
think...
I think it's an industry that still has a lot of potential. think there's still, you know, customers that are wanting to buy Australian built products and products that Australian manufacturers putting on the market. I think that COVID was quite successful for the industry. A lot of people buying caravans and, know, you didn't have to sell a caravan anymore. You're just like essentially auto taking. And then COVID's passed and then people had to learn how to do business again. But customers have changed. The industry had changed and imports had flooded in. And I think that what happened as a collective industry was
No one had worked out the strategy and how to combat it. So it's a little bit like if you can't beat him, join him. So then all the manufacturers, a lot of the manufacturers started then getting on the bandwagon to then import more products. And that's just the fastest race to the bottom because they all just started a roadie margin. You're going to shows and you're slashing prices. You're not even covering costs on a van. And then essentially you have no money left to service a customer, which is the biggest problem. So I've sort of said this to lot of the industry associations since I've been back, the CEOs have been great to
reach
out my biggest the biggest thing I can see from the 10 years I've been out to now has been that the customer service and the lack of customer service and the lack of you know who the businesses are the faces of the business has been the biggest disappointment we've almost gone backwards so standing before your product them knowing who you are then being able to call you on a phone number and someone answers the phone just the basics around what customers deserve has probing the biggest shift I've seen and not all manufacturers
deals are doing this, I'm still doing it well. But there's been a huge shift in, you know, basically trying to sell any event at any cost, losing a little bit of the morals and values around standing your ground and understanding your competitive advantage or value proposition if you have one. And I think that that's all been lost in the rat race of trying to stay, keeping your head above water, basically trying to stay in business. And it's been sad to sort of see from the outside. And I was lucky enough to have a whole lot of loyal customers reach out to me the 12 months before I came in.
literally saying to me, can you please come back and manufacture vans? We want to trade, but we wouldn't pick anyone else. And I was blown away by it, to be honest. And when I go back saying, what do you mean? These people are good, these people are good. Like, no, there's no after sale services. No, this is no that. And it was all just around the service. So I think it's been, it's been difficult to watch, but I think we can bounce back and we can just get on our feet and understand what Shane manufacturing is here to do. And, ⁓ you know, stand before something we all believe in with a level of
that the industry accepts, but we have to get better at servicing customers past the point of handover. We've got to be here for the long haul around that. That's the bit that customers have lost. We've lost credibility on if I can say.
Sam Penny (20:55)
You clearly
have your finger on the pulse of this industry. From your perspective, where are some of these particularly Australian manufacturers, where are they breaking?
Gabby Montagnese (21:07)
I think it's not understanding what product you're selling and your why.
I mean, like before I came back, I jumped on whiteboard and like I did the why in the box, you know, the Simon Siening stuff. Like it's got to start with why. What are you here for? What are you here to do? Or else I'm the same as the other 150 manufacturers putting a box on wheels on the market. So I had to understand my why. I think a lot of manufacturers probably been in the industry for a long period of time and they know no difference. They just do what they keep doing. The difference that the industry is probably not condoned to yet is the market's changed. Consumers have changed and we've not adapted the
industry towards consumers but for me I've basically read the customers first, worked out my why and now have a combination of a product we'll basically execute to the market that is all of that.
Sam Penny (21:53)
from your perspective, what is it that separates brands that survive from those that don't? Surely you've done a huge amount of research on those 150 Australian manufacturers. Is there a DNA that's inherent in these brands that survive?
Gabby Montagnese (22:10)
Yeah, absolutely there is. mean, brand and credibility is one. know, the people standing behind a business another financial stability is quite clearly needs to be key by some sort of what we're saying. ⁓ I think that there's a lot to be said around the acumen behind some of the businesses that obviously haven't done well. You know, this over capital spending and spending in the wrong places. And I think the biggest thing for me is, you know, the investment on our deal, the investment on product and making sure that you have a market to sell that into. think a lot of the manufacturers have gone
is someone's done it and everyone else has copied and have not really understood the why around it, nor whether it's even profitable or there's going to be a return on it. They've just looked at something that they think is sold well overseas, probably taking very minimal statistics and facts on it, not done the proper costing analysis on it and rolled it out and then it's not worked. So I think that the market is quite immature in its business acumen around that sort of positioning and I think it's really important to cost up vans, understand your productivity,
understand all your costs. mean it's business 101 but essentially it's making sure that you have a market you can sell products to that are profitable. Well there's just no point essentially but I think that's where it goes wrong and everything else that goes with it the marketing campaigns and
know, following up leads and all the stuff that we know really well. But I just think it's a whole holistic approach to business, people, markets, consumers, the industry. And there's very limited people with a holistic approach, if I can say that today.
Sam Penny (23:42)
And you're exactly right when you say that much of the industry misses just the basic facts of business. Like you say, business 101, it's marketing 101, it's finance 101, it's customer service 101. They just can't put it all together. Then you look at someone like Jamie Johnson, who just purchased the assets of Zone, who appears from the outside to have all the components coming together. Originally an industry outsider and from what I understand a bit of a finance guy.
How do you see these kinds of consolidations happening in the market?
Gabby Montagnese (24:17)
I think the consolidations make sense. mean, I looked at even the zone deal. I mean, there's a lot in there that would make sense. The assets, I think where I get a little bit impatient, it's probably because I'm so drawn to consumers is ensuring that when we're doing the acquisitions, we're looking after consumers on the way through. Because ultimately, we can't lift the credibility of an industry and we're doing mergers and consolidation and we still have a whole bundle of customers that aren't sort of serviced or coming through this process successfully as well. So I think it makes sense. I hear only good things about him. I don't know personally myself.
but there was a whole lot of equipment and assets there that would make sense to the right type of manufacturer that's looking at mass production of a similar type of van. Now whether or not that comes off for him strategically I'm not really sure I'm not across what he plans to do with it but again it's building the products offering to the market the same way.
Sam Penny (25:07)
Now, Gabby, before we dive into your acquisition of BruderX, I want to firstly explore the group that you've created called Unknown Destinations Group. What is that all about?
Gabby Montagnese (25:20)
So originally we started up and we were going to be Destination Unknown RVs and then obviously with the conversations with Bruder and just the other opportunities on the table through different RV spaces and contacts, we now have multiple products that are going to hit the line under multiple brands. And some of the brand names are names I can't change because we're basically picking them up under distribution rights from Europe. we then we had a look at the group and we've now we've moved Destination Unknown RVs is now going to be Destination Unknown Group.
and then we have all basically the brands sitting under the overarching group. So that's essentially been the change in short.
Sam Penny (25:58)
part of this is a philanthropic component to Destination's Unknown group. I want you to talk about that.
Gabby Montagnese (26:04)
think we have fully trafficked in the evidence we've got.
Yeah, so the foundation is named after my late father. He worked for me actually heading up customer service when I owned Caravans. He loved his role. He got diagnosed with cancer at the point where he was about to retire. So we basically funded a whole lot of research ⁓ while he was still alive doing treatment. And then he passed away in 2018. And he asked me before he passed away if I could set up some funding for the oncologist to do research on his type of lung cancer because he was on a trial drug for a long time.
And I taught him that I have six months to live and he lived two and a half years. So quite clearly the charred rugs are doing something. So I set up a path and it's called Frank Montanese Foundation. And we now do a whole lot of philanthropic work in various spaces. But cancer is obviously a big one for me. I am the chair of Tour de Cure here in Melbourne. We do homelessness, we do domestic violence, we do mental health. So we do a whole host of programs around social impact. And one of the things I found over the years I was doing social impact since I was old, New Age was
I'd walk into like housing the state so whether it be domestic violence or homelessness and they'd say to me oh you're the lady that used to own New Edge I'm like yeah oh could you build these and they're like tiny homes I'm like oh I could have just sold the business but I don't now and then I had that happen maybe you know 10 12 times I'm like there's something in this why did I not do this the first time and it was the one thing in my strategy I didn't execute before Wilkershall brought me out fully and it was the you know the giving back and the charity part of just who I am and my dad was and who we are so now what I've done in this
is it's a full ecosystem. It's essentially basically that we will build products. There's a whole lot of work coming our way in the philanthropic space. It's for profit, but there's also an aspect of this where a portion of the profits are put aside and we'll basically redirect through to the path and the foundation to give back. And that is extensive. Like I basically just give back now because I give back now, but we will do this now by way of products and financial contributions. So it'll be both. Yeah.
Sam Penny (28:06)
Oh, that's absolutely fantastic,
Gabby. Now, you exited New Age, you're out of the game for a number of years, most people exit and they generally stay out, but you went the other way. Why did you decide to come back?
Gabby Montagnese (28:22)
I came back ⁓ quite clearly when one of my first reasons is customers. ⁓ I cannot tell you how many customers would contact me on social media and Facebook. It's unbelievable. And when I started looking into what was happening and I probably had six or seven things land at the same time. It was customers, it was my main factory I produced new HK runs out of was they exit the lease early. I some issues around that. ⁓
It was social impact work and me wanting to build little modular homes and things around homelessness and youth homelessness. And I could have the ability to do that here.
It was some contacts and contracts and some deals I had landed through overseas contacts where they're looking at products for export. And I went, I need to do this again. And then I had a whole host of people who worked for me when I had New Age would literally just ring going, whenever you start up again, I'm coming back. I'm like, who said I'm starting up again? And that just happened over and over. And then I probably had ⁓ three key people at the end. So I had a supplier friend of mine sat me down and he said, are you bored yet? I think you pretend like you're not bored doing all this business.
Sam Penny (29:16)
Ha
Gabby Montagnese (29:27)
coaching but you must be bored. The industry needs you back and this is why and he gave me a full summary of where the industry was at and then I had one of my business partners say to me you have a real passion for caravans and customers you need to get back in the space like everything we're doing in business is great but you have a spark when we talk about caravans that is undeniable and then the last one ⁓ is obviously around the foundation work so it was like you know keep people sitting me down and my advisor
good friend of mine who's been my advisor 15 years he just said to me I'm really bored and are you doing a project because I want to get back in with you doing a project I said actually I'm thinking about this so to show you my strategy and everyone was there not bored so before I knew it I sort of come back into my New Age building everyone's walked in the door ready to come back to work it was just awesome it was really good feeling to be honest
Sam Penny (30:13)
So
if we look then at BruderX, BruderX for those unaware, very much at the premium end of the market. Some of their RVs are run at 400,000 Australian, but about 300,000 US. ⁓ Very different to that New Age market. So why Bruder?
Gabby Montagnese (30:34)
I met Toby and Dan through a mutual contact probably last November December and I to be honest I just connected with the boys like there's such fabulous people you know and they're so passionate about what they do and they're so innovative and I just said to the guys I've not been impressed by products in a long time here or overseas like I've seen vans and it's all sort of the same stuff I went up and had a look at the way they manufacture those EXPs and I was like wow this is like next level and then what they can do with those products just blew me away and I sort of really just saw an opportunity
opportunity
where I said to the boys I want to showcase your products to the world. You are world class and you are stuck in this little pigeonhole and it was more around you know the ability to scale and the ability to run business and the boys are really good at playing sort of in innovation and know Toby obviously does a lot of the brand and the content but all the other aspects of the business is where they were limited which is the value I put it. So I sat with them and just said look this is my strategy this is what I'm planning on doing they obviously needed help in
running the business and being able to scale it for their own ambitions and goals and we just sat down where we think we can make this work. I already have the work to export, you have the product to basically help me do that and I can help you do everything else in Australia and you can help me in innovation in this this this this and this. So it just made total sense but I connected really well with them you know they're very similar to me. People come first, they're great with customers, they look after people and I really love those qualities I admire the qualities and they probably did a lot of that to the detriment of
themselves to be fair and I could see that so it's been really good to be honest it's been a good process we've had good conversations and there's a lot of trust between us already which is really nice.
Sam Penny (32:15)
From the outside Brutal looked like was under some pressure. What's the truth?
Gabby Montagnese (32:19)
So loaded cushion that one Sam, yeah, look, I think it's what I said. I think it's basically what I alluded to. So as soon as I mean that there's quite a lot of pressure. mean, you're building products that are quite, you know, between three and $500,000 here. So you're looking to basically cashflow products of that much.
plus expand and grow and overcapitalized in one or two areas and then things didn't come off as quickly as they should have in three or four other areas. And it's just trying to keep your head above water. they essentially just come to me and they're really honest and they said, this is the part we're good at and this is the part we're not that good at and can you help us with this part? And so it made sense, but essentially it's, I think it's a combination of them being tired, them not knowing what move to make next. And I can probably just add in the bits that they're not that great at like they can me.
and
I can relieve them of cashflow pressures. And with me being able to do that means they can do what they do best, which is plain innovation, because that's the bit they do absolutely best. And they also have a whole lot of commercial work on the go there as well. And they just couldn't execute it all at once. Because trying to keep up with the customer orders, execute some commercial work, plus run the business was just a lot to do for the both of them. So I feel like, you know, with me coming on board, I can help them in that space. So that's essentially what it is.
Sam Penny (33:37)
From meeting Toby and Dan only last December, I think you said to finalizing a deal and executing that in March, the space of about three or four months. How did you execute a deal so fast?
Gabby Montagnese (33:49)
Yeah, so look, I think it was a lot of mutual understanding. It was a lot of conversations that were difficult on, know, the reality is this and this looks like this. And if we do this, we can get here by this point. ⁓ you know, they're not they're not easy conversations to be had. But also this having been on the receiving end of an acquisition, I'd sit in the room and feel like I had a business that was completely falling apart and not good enough, because that's typically how it feels when you're being bought out. ⁓
I had lot of compassion for them. So I would sit them down, I would say, this may feel like this, but actually what I mean is this, and I can help you with that. And I've been where you are, your business and your product is world class, but these are the bits that you need help with that aren't running that well. So we had a whole lot of open, robust conversations. And I just have a whole lot of compassion for people who have a business that's then bought out. And then what they think they knew and their ability to make decisions then changes, because essentially that's what's happened. And that can be a bit of a knockoff
the ego. So I just came in from from a position of I'm absolutely here to help. This situation is not great. I'm here to help and this is how I think we can do that.
Sam Penny (34:57)
Now, Toby and Dan didn't just walk off into the sunset. ⁓ They still are active in the day-to-day of the business. What are their roles today?
Gabby Montagnese (35:08)
Yeah, so Toby is the director of brand and Dan is the director of innovation. So they basically own the streams that they're brilliant at essentially. And they're working fully in the business. They sit with me on the board and the exec team. You know, we're here to roll out an aggressive strategy and we'll do that really well. But essentially, they're hands on every single day. Yep.
Sam Penny (35:30)
One of the first things when the acquisition was announced, Gabby, was that the name was changed from BruderX to BruderRV. And that obviously raised a lot of questions. ⁓ Why was that change made so fast and right at the beginning?
Gabby Montagnese (35:47)
Look, think for me personally, I always like to start things new. It's just a little personal thing of mine. I'm a bit of a started by new business, a brand new skin and new entity. It's just how I like to do business. It's a fresh start, clear intention, good energy. Away we go. But essentially it was just what needed to happen for us to execute the changes quicker. You know, they've basically got a bit of a convoluted setup and business where there's a lot of things that are tied into each other and they have the US dealership and, you know, different entities own their IP. And it was just too messy for me.
and I'm just a real clean business type person. So it was just the best way to progress it the fastest to be fair. So it was basically a new business name, not too different. I mean the logo we only made a slight change to just to honor the boys and everything they've built and the brand is fabulous. And that was how we started. If it was me basically taking the entities over, it's a lot slower, there's a lot more legal requirements, there's a lot more money for lawyers. It actually made no sense to do it that way.
So this was the quickest way for us to execute.
Sam Penny (36:49)
You mentioned just before, one of the things that you bring to the party is an aggressive expansion strategy, and you certainly showed that with New Age. What are we likely to see with this acquisition of Bruder?
Gabby Montagnese (37:01)
Yeah, good question. So basically there'll be an expansion on the caravan range that the guys have already rolled out. They basically sold over a hundred units from one social media post from one layout, which was the ADX 21. So they're following and they're standing is remarkable. So we're basically rolling out an expansion of that range. So being 18 foot and a family van, a few others. The XP range is the same as an expansion, but we have a whole lot of other products we're turning on. So there's products for a different type of market, slightly cheaper for every single person, basically be able to enjoy caravanning.
or an RV experience and we have products turning on in every segment motor homes all segments and essentially it's not just RV so one of the things for us is diversifying so we have a whole lot of commercial work on the go. The boys have historically done a whole lot of work with defense force and a few other government groups we're still going to do a lot of that work and innovation in that space as well.
Sam Penny (37:55)
They're certainly well known for their suspension system. It's bright red, it goes up and down and it lift wheels off the ground. Is that still going to be a core part of what Bruder is?
Gabby Montagnese (38:05)
Absolutely. So everything that the guys are known for and they're proud of and remarkable at will stay. Why would we change it? That makes absolutely no sense. And there's a whole lot of other innovative products that the guys have been working on that haven't rolled out to market yet. And with us now being involved, we'll be able to do that faster. Yep.
Sam Penny (38:22)
One of the things and you mentioned it briefly just before they're following their social media following is massive and definitely the largest in the industry. What was it that you know from a couple of guys that have created something which is really quite innovative. What is it that people just keep leaning into?
Gabby Montagnese (38:44)
Yeah, I think it's the way that the product is. It's the niche market the product has. It's like this whole innovative following and I can't even explain it. It's like something I've not seen before. I just know it's a huge opportunity, right? So I feel like the boys will come out and say, well, you know, this is the product and this is a suspension. They have so much credibility in what they've done by an engineering perspective and compliance. People trust them. They trust the brand. They've delivered products that have done some remarkable things in the caravanning space. They offer consumers.
experiences that most other caravans will fall apart doing. So what they've done is remarkable and the footage around it, I was blown away by. So I think that they have some credibility about what they do in innovation. They're a trusted product, a trusted brand. And so I think that regardless of the products we pump through innovation, these guys are going to stand up and they're going to basically have a product that's sound. And I think that's the bit that customers are connecting with with them. Absolutely.
Sam Penny (39:40)
It must bring a lot of assurance to the customers who already in line waiting for, for example, the ADX 21 to know that Gabby Montagnese is in there and this company is really going to see the second wave or the second, almost the second coming of Bruder RV.
Gabby Montagnese (40:01)
Absolutely. And now we've got on the forefront of that. So we called every customer directly, my team here, before the announcement came out and we let them know the announcement was coming out and we basically calling customers saying we are honoring your contract. So whatever's left in the deal, I am basically building and I'm going to honor these contracts. And ⁓ it's been quite a remarkable process. So customers have been really appreciative of that because, you know, the alternatives could have been different. Right. So I'm here to basically make sure that every customer gets the product they've signed on to get.
and deliver the product on time. And the fact that we now have production turning on like Brisbane basically already producing vans but Melbourne turns on next week, prototypes already through the line. So it's very reassuring for customers. Absolutely. So the feedback has been very positive. I am though on all the social media pages like I'm there going this is Gabby let me know any issues and customers have just been great with feedback and they've got really good ideas about caravans. I love it. Some's not being good like you know they're frustrated and I totally get it. I'm like I'm not going to argue.
with you, totally get it. But we're here to fix this, not always going to get it right, but we're going to try. And so customers have taken to that really, really well. So it's been good actually, it's been very rewarding. Yep.
Sam Penny (41:12)
That's fantastic. Now I want to place a focus back on the listener. My listeners, they're founders around the world. And I want to specifically talk about builder versus buyer. From your perspective, what do you find is harder building from scratch or fixing something that already exists?
Gabby Montagnese (41:31)
question because this time I'm doing both at once isn't that interesting I feel like you know there's pros and cons for both but I would probably say building from scratch
I think building from scratch means you can basically put your own foundation in, build a culture the way you want, and you strategically can place a business where you want at the time you want. think buying a business, unless there's something you want that they have, which is basically what I've done with the boys, but then you've got to do the reverse engineering and undoing some of the stuff and aligning a business culturally to the way that you do business. There's more work in that, in my view, than building a business from scratch and then bolting your team
⁓ everyone aligning on a strategy, everyone getting on a bus and away you go. Both have pros and cons and both are fun at times and difficult at times but I feel like there's more emphasis on making sure that everyone's along for a journey the right way when you're acquiring a business. There's more aspects around people and more aspects around culture that need to be managed more closely.
Sam Penny (42:37)
very big on core values. Firstly, your personal core values and then the core values of the business. How do your personal core values align with Bruder? And there need to be some changes around that?
Gabby Montagnese (42:51)
Yeah, so I mean, they're the very early conversations we had, be fair, around the table, very early conversations, very difficult conversations. But I would basically say the way I run business is this. I'm honest. If I've made a mistake alone, I'm authentic. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't have done that. That was the lich of the conversations we had had. So I think the alignment is, you know, letting the fear go. I mean, for the collective group now, it's just we've got to let the fear go. Like whatever happens, happened, whatever you created that got you where you got to has happened now.
Now we're all about doing the right thing by the consumers, employees, supply chain, industry, and we're to do that authentically. You can only do that when you're honest. So I don't know why people fear being honest. I feel like when it comes to anyone you're dealing with, being honest is always easiest. You just go, we got into this mess. This is the problem. Here's our plan to get out of it. Work with me and I'm going to get us there, right? So I always come at everything openly and honestly. I feel like it just makes things so much easier to navigate.
don't have ego and fear in business. feel like I turn up, show up. I'm the same person in all aspects of my life. So ⁓ it makes no difference. But there is a bit of alignment on, there's no fear. So there should be no more hiding on the way we do business. There's no covering up. Let's just open this up. Let's just air everything we need to and let's just get on with it. So we're at that point now, which is great.
Sam Penny (44:12)
That sounds fantastic. it sounds like Toby and Dan have chosen, couldn't have chosen a better partner to take Bruder into that into that next phase. Who did you have to become to step back into the arena to do this deal?
Gabby Montagnese (44:29)
You know, I had to get really.
I'm more close with who I am as a person, to be honest. It was actually quite challenging at times, just working out what you have and what you need to basically make a deal happen. But I had to get really honest about the person I needed to become to do this. And to do this means I needed to be honest with myself, work involved, the hours involved, the conversations to be had, the compassion you need. I had to make sure I showed up and turned up every single day ready to do that. And my own personal way to do that was like I meditate every day.
I'm not clearly focused in my mind, I won't be doing it. So that's just how I am. But I think showing up for yourself daily means you can then show up for people. If you don't show up for yourself daily, then you just shouldn't be showing up for people, right? So I think I had to basically make sure I had the courage to step into this space, not run away from things I ran away from the first time, because I was pretty much then the only female manufacturer in the industry. Now there's a whole lot more females. It's great. But back then it was more difficult to navigate, right?
language in negative way about me then as in you're only female how do you be a mom and run a business and all that sort of stuff now the world's changed so there'll be things I won't step away from there'll be things that I go now I'm going to fight for that because I'm going to back that position right so I had to get more comfortable with me and more comfortable with saying no and more comfortable in following my intuition all the way through the execution
Sam Penny (45:54)
What personality traits have helped you most?
Gabby Montagnese (45:56)
Vulnerability is probably the big one, believe it or not. Well, I feel like, you know,
Sam Penny (45:59)
In what way?
Gabby Montagnese (46:03)
There's all of this image around the way you need to be and the stigma around the way you need to be as a leader. And you you're meant to walk in every day and have every answer. And I think just being honest with my team someday, like I've walked in through this whole acquisition and I've said to my team, I don't know if we should do this. I don't know if I'm going to do it. I would literally have those conversations, you know, and then I'd unpack it with them as to why. And it doesn't show weakness. It shows that you're human and you're vulnerable and you're able to then connect with people on that level.
I think vulnerability for sure. Honesty was another one. So not having fear to step into the person I feel like I've always been born to be. Whereas I've always been apologetic for the person I've been to be fair. Like in the way that, you know, the family, not the family I was born into, but just the generation it was. And then how I've sort of moved away from everyone that's in my life that grew up with me. And I'm very different, right? So I feel like stepping into the shoes and becoming the person that I feel comfortable being.
has been a huge change for me, but one I feel really good about now and navigating who I am, what my core values are and then making sure that every day that is what you're honouring.
Sam Penny (47:15)
Then was there a trait that nearly held you back on this?
Gabby Montagnese (47:17)
self doubt, believe it or not.
Do believe it? Self-doubt. I would have days where I'd have like, it's the fear and the self-doubt, yeah? And then I'd ⁓ not have to reiterate what I did, but I'd just be literally reaffirming to myself, yeah, you can do this. This is literally the first time. You know, and then I'd get into a space, I feel like everything flowed so well and easily and everything, couldn't have come off any better even if I tried. And then I'd be like, yeah, that just validates something. I'm in the right place. So I think it's more awareness.
about yourself and awareness about how an event or a meeting or a session goes and filling that in the physical sense makes all the difference but I did have a few days where I had some self doubt reality is I didn't have to do this business I mean I could stay home invest money and earn money see I'm not doing it for money does that make sense see you you have the challenge in your mind about investing millions of dollars into a business and a group to grow it
and all the work and sacrifice that comes with that is going to be huge. lot of enjoyment. But the alternative is I could stay home and earn money and not do that. Do you know what I mean? So your motivations and your intentions are very different.
Sam Penny (48:25)
Well, on that then, Gabby, has your definition of success changed since exiting New Age? you're only what, two weeks into acquiring BruderX, BruderRV?
Gabby Montagnese (48:38)
Yep, absolutely it's changed. So I think the first time, and it's probably just from conditioning of life, you you be successful, you run a business, sell for a lot of money and people define success around the money, right? We were the second largest player, won a lot of awards, yep, that's all great. And it was fabulous and I honour all of it and I'm very grateful for it. But my version of success now is furthest from money.
It's interesting. know, the success for me is, you know, showing up every day. I did it the first time well, but I ended up Christmas holidays, you know, exhausted and in bed for a week or hospitalized for two days. Like you're basically running a business to the detriment of your own health. This time I've come in more, you know, connected with who I am and what I need to do to show up every day. So success for me is how you show up, how you can impact people daily, you know, how you can change someone's life in a day, what you put to the market, improving the quality standards.
in the industry. I'd love to be growing this industry. Success for me now is defined so much differently than what it was the first time. Absolutely.
Sam Penny (49:38)
So then what are you building now that you didn't understand then?
Gabby Montagnese (49:41)
I feel like now I'm building more of an ecosystem. think the first time I just built transactional caravans. You know, we improved the quality of life for customers. That was, we loved it. We had a great time doing it. Now I feel like I'm building an entire ecosystem. Like I'm going to build you that product, but then part of that product is going to help that person sleep at night. So it's a whole different psychology around what we do. Completely different than what I did the first time. And the other things we're doing is we're taking youth in that won't otherwise have got jobs. We're bringing them into the factory and putting them in apprenticeships and giving them
some training. So there's just a whole aspect to the philanthropic work we do in all ways in the business.
Sam Penny (50:17)
Now, Gabby, before we wrap up, I want to turn the attention back to the listener. Someone who's listening right now, they're sitting on a decision. They've built something, they're thinking about bringing in capital or they're thinking about buying something broken. What should they do this week?
Gabby Montagnese (50:33)
they should. ⁓
Assess they understand why they're doing it. Make sure you're really clear on your why. I think the hell, the what, the when is the easy part. The why, if you can't get that why right and that doesn't make sense to you, it will not make sense to anyone else. So really getting comfortable with backing your why and then giving it a go. If it makes sense for you and aligns for you and you're really clear on your intention around why you're back or why you're doing or why you want to do it, then you should go for it because there's more regret to be had in the fear of not doing it and you never
have tried it before right so there's way more regret there so I say the feel always hold you back but that's the worst you know position to sit in so I feel like I did that this time when I was toying with coming back I thought if I don't do it I'm always going to have the regret that I didn't do it for what fear or self-doubt so there's a far more than giving it a go it works it works it doesn't it doesn't but for me it's imperative that you understand why you're showing up why you're doing it and what you're there for absolutely
Sam Penny (51:32)
How do people really understand then who they are as a person? there a way that they can easily understand better their core values?
Gabby Montagnese (51:40)
Yeah, I think for me it was like getting to some of my darkest points in life and my darkest moments and worst moments, which I don't recommend to people, right? But if life happens to you, it does. ⁓
But for me it was a combination of being tested with life and then probably realising that life happens for you and not to you. It was one of the best pieces of advice I was given by someone one day was, life's not happening to you, it's happening for you. So trusting that the redirections and where life's taking you is where you need to be. And through my dad passing away and I divorced and I had domestic violence and all sorts of crazy stuff. But if I didn't go through any of that, I wouldn't be where I'm now. Which is the foundation, doing work
and social impact for people that have had an experience like me or whatever it is. You we grew up relatively poor, so I'm quite motivated to make sure everyone's looked after in my life. So I feel like I have a real clear understanding that life happens for you now. And I just trust that the direction in all of this is obviously for a great good, there's no doubt about it. And I don't victimize, I don't question why me, why this, I just don't do it.
Sam Penny (52:43)
I always, when I work with companies and trying to understand the core values of the company, but also the founders, I always bring it back to simply what are the things that really excite you and get you up out of bed in the morning? And what are the things that really piss you off? And that there are your core values.
Some people build once, others build exit, and then they choose to step back into uncertainty. That's a different kind of founder. What Gabby's shown us today is this, growth isn't just about scaling, it's about knowing when to let go and when to step back in, because the best operators don't just build businesses, they build judgment. Gabby, if people want to follow your journey, learn more about what you're doing with Bruder RV, where should they go?
Gabby Montagnese (53:28)
places you can go to bruderrv.com destinationunknowngroup.com or you can follow us on the foundation too, frankmontagnesefoundation.com
Sam Penny (53:37)
Absolutely fantastic. And I'll make sure I put all of those links into the show notes. This is Built to Sell Built to Buy. I'm Sam Penny. Now go build something worth buying or worth coming back for.
