Sam Penny (00:00)
The phone buzzes again. It's the bank. Payroll is due tomorrow and John Williamson is staring at a spreadsheet that just doesn't add up. Staff are depending on him. Clients need results, but the numbers are screaming one truth. This business might not survive the week. Most of us imagine rock bottom as something you hit once. For John, it happened more than once. And yet instead of tapping out, he found ways to claw his way back, reshaping himself in the process.
He's the founder of Construct Health, a business that grew to 40 staff, nearly collapsed twice and was eventually sold to a national group. But the real story, it's what he did when the walls were closing in. He laced up his running shoes, stepped into the boxing ring and started testing the limits of his body and mind to survive the darkest days. This isn't about climbing Everest or crossing oceans. It's about the kind of courage it takes to keep going.
when everything in you wants to quit. this is why do think you can do that? And this is John Williamson. John, welcome to the show.
John Williamson (01:06)
Hi Sam, ⁓ thanks very much for having me on today. Looking forward to the conversation.
Sam Penny (01:10)
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it because as you know, a lot of my guests, they've got world records, they've climbed Everest multiple times, crossed oceans. But John, look, to be honest, everyone has a great story within them. And just like every good book, it starts at the beginning. So give me a sense of the John Williamson growing up. What kind of kid were you and what led you into physiotherapy in the first place?
John Williamson (01:34)
I would say I was a pretty ordinary kid. Growing up, I started out, was probably fairly active with athletics in my early years, but then I actually moved across more into academics more. So like I went to a private school here in Brisbane in Australia and ended up coming first in my year, like dux of my year for a couple of years in a row. Yeah, was very diligent with that. I guess I moved into physiotherapy, Sam.
Fundamentally because I wanted to help people. Actually, I remember the thinking at the start, wouldn't it be great? I don't have this skill set yet, but wouldn't it be amazing to go through this degree and learn, I guess, the fundamentals of a skill set where someone can come to me and go, I have this physical problem. And I can, identify it and say, two, I know what we can do to basically rehabilitate that and bring you back to pre-injury status and beyond. So, yeah, that's how I sort of got into physiotherapy in the first place.
Sam Penny (02:31)
So going back to school, you said you were a dux at the school. Was that through sheer hard work? it because you're a bloody smart kid? What was that?
John Williamson (02:39)
And to clarify, it wasn't dux of the school, it was dux of the few years prior to that. No, didn't, in my final year I didn't take dux. So, no, I just worked hard, to be honest with you. I mean, sure, someone could say, you're smart, but I think, to be honest with you, Sam, it was more hard. Like, I put in the work. I remember actually in year eight, one of ⁓ the school, the year masters saying to my parents, he's going to need to slow down, he's going to burn out, because he's he's doing so much work.
Sam Penny (02:43)
Ha
John Williamson (03:07)
And they were right. So there's a good example of someone with far more experience than you ⁓ telling you something that may happen down the track. So yeah, I think in answer to your question, it was more so hard work than anything else.
Sam Penny (03:21)
So you built a nice steady career as a physiotherapist, but then in 2008, you decide to risk it all. You launch a business. What made you take that leap?
John Williamson (03:32)
So when I started physio in 2002, I really wanted to do sports. my goal was to, I was assisting physio in my first year to the premier Brisbane soccer or football team at the time. And I was doing some other work around that. I ended up wanting to go to Italy to try and get a physio lead job with one of the Serie A football teams over there. Even though I grew up with rugby.
I sort of soon changed my mind, just realised I was a fair bit of ego in sport and it didn't really gel with me. So I ended up getting interested in business and I thought it would be great to work with businesses. ⁓ So obviously physio predominantly works directly with patients. I thought wouldn't it be cool to get into some of the corporate world as well and do some physio and occupational health ⁓ things in that area. So I moved over to England, I first moved up.
got sent up to the mines in central Queensland and got exposed to that and knew nothing about it and realised these people really needed help with some of their work environments. Then moved overseas to England and I worked at Heathrow Airport, worked with BP in London, ⁓ John Lewis, which is like a big David Jones equivalent. I used to look after all their staff at their Oxford Street store in the West End. ⁓ So I had a great experience over there. And then when I came back at the start of 2008,
to Brisbane, I always wanted to start my own business. I was like, it's time to have a go at this yourself. look, the last thing with that was my, a key reason in my mind that I decided that was because I was like, even though there's obviously risks in starting your own business and there's no guarantees it's going to work, I didn't want to walk into someone's office one day and they say, we'll let you go.
⁓ Now unfortunately I've had to do that to people ⁓ in my business career and I can tell you it's a horrible thing to have to deliver to someone. It would be even worse to be something you have to hear. ⁓ So I kind of thought the best way I can sort of minimise that is to try and chart my own course.
Sam Penny (05:32)
You mentioned Heathrow. Whilst you were at Heathrow, a major event happened there that really shook the world. Tell me about that.
John Williamson (05:39)
Yeah, was in 2006. for anyone that flies internationally now, you'll know that you can't have more than 100 mL of a liquid in your carry-on. So that all happened actually the day I was working at Heathrow. ⁓ And so what was really interesting about that, apart from obviously the core issues that were there around potential liquids combining to form bombs, ⁓ the... ⁓
it impacted us because we looked after the security officers. something that was, you would think is unrelated to physiotherapy and injury, what it meant was that every person that went through security had to get frisked, which basically meant the security officer had to do a full squat, basically four of those a minute. And because there was so much of a backlog of passengers coming through, the normal efficiencies within the security department.
they weren't there because they were just getting overloaded. if you can, listening, think about doing four squats a minute, full squats that is, ⁓ for a minimum of an hour. And I can tell you, for someone who is in, who you might go, I'm pretty fit, that would be interesting. And a lot of these people weren't fit. So we had a lot of preventative work we had to get in place to try and minimize that because obviously when those people... ⁓
Sam Penny (06:58)
He
John Williamson (07:05)
if they start getting injured, that's going to have more of a negative impact on the productivity of that flow through of passengers. But also to amend, we had to deal with the number of injuries coming through as well.
Sam Penny (07:15)
So you then return to Australia, you start up something called Construct Health. You start with great ambition. Tell me about the launch of that.
John Williamson (07:24)
Yeah, it was pretty slow, Sam. So I started with a business partner, a guy I'm still great mates with today. He's now a doctor in New South Wales. We went through physiotherapy together. We worked up in the mines together. We actually worked overseas together at Heathrow. And so we'd always talked about starting a business together, but it was slow because it was the time of the global financial crisis. And so what was already slow,
you know, starting up a business, it was even slower because a lot of companies were sort of retracting and very much our focus at the time was engaging with businesses. And by the end of that first 12 months, my then business partner came to me and said, I don't think I want to, I think we should put this on ice, go get full-time jobs and maybe pick it up again when times get better. And, you one of my big beliefs, Sam, is
you've got to do what you want to do and ultimately what's going to make you happy. I'm like, and if that's not with me, that's cool. But I was like, man, I'm sticking around. I'm going to dig in here and if I can just keep having some conversations with people, even if nothing comes of it initially, inevitably the good times will return or will come on an upside in certain time. And if I've been there during the tougher times and having those conversations, then my intent was to be front of mind when...
that those organisations start to engage again. And probably about midway through 2009, so 18 months after we started, we got our first big kick. ⁓ I got an opportunity to buy out a mining contract, which I did. There was some risk in it. It only ran for six months and I had to take on some debt to do it. ⁓ But I calculated that if by the end of that six months, it didn't get renewed or anything like that, I'd probably, by the time I paid my debt out,
I'd walk away with $5,000 and I was like, you know what, that's worth the puns for me just to get out into that environment again and start talking to people. And fast forward six months, the contract got renewed, it was 50 % bigger than what it was before, the monetary value, know, day rates were higher, and that really was the catalyst to get Construct Health really underway.
Sam Penny (09:36)
So you start building this company, Construct Health. ⁓ Tell me about the growth of it.
John Williamson (09:41)
Yeah, so early on, so about six months later, I actually met ⁓ my now sort of former business partner. We were actually doing stuff in the same area, but ⁓ we were both faced with a challenge that was coming internally from one of our corporate clients. And I just wanted to talk to someone else who is in my position, but maybe not a direct competitor to me at the time. And so we got talking because it was a, yeah, as said, it was a threat to both of us. ⁓ We got on well.
And so we eventually, the other gentleman suggested, goes, perhaps we should merge our businesses 50-50. And we did do that in due course. so that growth, from that sort 2010 through to that 2013 period, it was fast. Like we were big in mining, we got approached to go into gas. So there was a lot of gas.
projects happening in Queensland at the time. And we weren't deliberately trying to get into there, but we got approached by, I guess it was a really good lesson in business in terms of the art of following up with people. ⁓ So I remember talking to a gentleman who was working at a mining project ⁓ that was owned by the Hancock establishment. And they were looking to do this project, but then subsequently I followed up with him and said, look, I'll follow up in due course.
Nothing really was happening, but I said I would follow up. So I followed up three months later. He'd actually moved to this gas company said we were literally just talking about you yesterday and we'd like you to come in for a meeting and So we went from this funny situation where you're usually pursuing the clients today or pursuing us and I was like this is weird And we went into this meeting with them that we went into an initial meeting and they asked us back for another one and I was like, okay And we went in and basically came out of that meeting and realized our company was about to double in size and very quickly and I remember
It was such a fun moment. I remember getting into the lift with my business partner and we just said, say anything. This was after the meeting and we got downstairs and we're like, holy, how are we going to do this? ⁓ But we hustled and it was an awesome adventure. as I said, so our growth during that sort of three year period, Sam, was really fast. But an interesting lesson, another lesson in business was I didn't trust it. So we were.
we were earning big money. Like there was big money coming through. I didn't appreciate the importance of cash flow because obviously, yeah, EBITDAs, margins were huge. everything looked really good, but even when you're growing fast, cash flow is an issue. yeah, I just didn't trust. thought this has happened too easily. And really what it was, yeah, we were well positioned, but we were also in an area where there was demand. was an uplift in that area.
And like everything that goes up, it doesn't typically stay up forever.
Sam Penny (12:37)
you've got some really significant scaling pains, but then all of a sudden it comes crashing down. How do you go from growth to it nearly breaking you?
John Williamson (12:48)
Yeah, we'd hit this peak, as you mentioned at the start, about 40 people in our team, ⁓ multiple different locations, and then everything started to slow. So the mining industry went through a downturn. ⁓ The gas projects started to finish up. We were trying to replace that revenue with other sources of work, and we did a little bit, but we couldn't do it all. And so it was around this sort of time that I actually went over to...
to do a course at MIT in the US, in Boston. And that was a great course. It was a disciplined entrepreneurship startup course. And I remember going over there and I remember at the start of the week writing some stuff out about how I wanted the week to go and how I wanted to the week. And one of the biggest things was like, if there's ever a moment in this week that you feel uncomfortable, said, want you to lean right into that and get stuck in. And that sort of happened within the first probably 10 minutes of the.
of the course starting and so I ended up pitching my idea because everyone had to bring an idea. And long story short, it was a really challenging week, probably from a learning perspective, probably the most challenging, yeah, it is the most challenging short time I've ever experienced. And our group ended up coming joint first in terms of we had to pitch to VCs and some of the finance professors of MIT.
at start, at the end of it. So that was a great experience and I came back from that and I said to my then business partner, I said, we're going through a hard time now. I don't know how long this is going to last for, but I need to know whether you're with me, whether you wanna be here or not. And either way, that's completely fine. You do what you wanna do, what makes you happy. I said, that's first and foremost. I said, but I do need to know because I'm sticking around.
and I'm ready to fight, but I just don't know. I don't want to be looking sideways to see if you're with me. I just want to be looking forwards. So he then exited at the end of 2015. I spent about a year restructuring the business to try and start dropping out some expenses. Unfortunately, with that, we had to let some of our team go, which was a it was a hard decision. By this stage, it was all on me because I was the 100 % shareholder.
That's a hard thing to, as I said to you earlier, it's a terrible thing to have to deliver to someone, it really is. ⁓ And it's also a difficult thing to try and explain to the team that remains, because they're like, well, am I next? Understandably, and I go, well, hang on, what's going on now? But also, sometimes they might think you could be heartless, or how could you do that? I'm like, if we don't do this, the whole ship sinks. ⁓ And so that was the first part of it, really just trying to sort of,
restructure the business. But second to that, and I think probably coming off the back, you know, my time at MIT, I was just really, I wanted to get going. I wanted to get moving again, you know, we had this big high, sorry, high, and then we dropped it down. And we dropped down through this downturn. I really wanted to, I wanted to just create momentum. I didn't want to wait, I wanted to create momentum.
So I looked at the thought, I'm going to geographically try and diverse this business a bit. So I started looking for acquisitions elsewhere. And I found some down in Southeast Queensland. ⁓ But unfortunately, and it was again a great lesson, unfortunately it costs money to learn, but it was a great lesson in an acquisition process and understanding the buyer and seller motivations and ⁓ looking for cues of things to go, that's...
a little bit odd or why is that person doing that? And so I ended up acquiring two physiotherapy clinics ⁓ just outside of Brisbane. And I went through all the due diligence, but because I was dealing with some things in the background, my potential buying process was a little bit delayed. And I just...
I was so, I had deal heat, effectively. was like, I'm going to make this thing happen. And it wasn't until afterwards when I had bought the business and I kind of lifted up the hood further, which you can only lift up once you've bought it. I was like, oh, there's not much of an engine in here and I think we're in a bit of trouble. So I, unfortunately sort of put us, yeah, we'd already sort of gone through a bit of a restructuring. We were starting to get some momentum again and then I sort of put us into a bit of a deeper hole. And ultimately that's...
That's on me. It was on no one else, it was on me. You can turn around to the seller and go, you weren't forthright and stuff, but that is what it is. It's ultimately, your responsibility.
Sam Penny (17:34)
It's interesting, John, listening to you and talking about all the hardships of being an entrepreneur and a business owner. I often say that I reckon being a business owner is one of the hardest jobs on the planet because it consumes you 24 seven. The livelihoods of your employee are on your shoulders. Their ability to put food on their table and feed their family is on your shoulders.
And you mentioned having to the pain of having to let staff go. How did that personally sit with you having to do that and knowing that these people that you're letting go that effectively they're feeling let down. How does that personally affect you?
John Williamson (18:18)
It doesn't... ⁓
I'll probably say it in two ways, Sam. From a personal perspective, you feel terrible because of exactly what you just described. You're like, well, this was a person's role, a person's job. And of course, you blame yourself. You're like, I shouldn't have let this happen. Then there's another part of me that's quite practical. And I'm like, one, if we don't do this,
everything sinks and more people go down. As another part of that, I'm also quite firm on as I'm like, this is the team effort. Yes, you need to lead it and ultimately you're the person who's ultimately accountable for it. You have to take that responsibility. ⁓ But it's also a team effort. Otherwise it'd just be you working on your own in the first place. ⁓ So there is that's probably more practical side of...
my sort of interpretation of the event as well, which I appreciate can probably sound a little bit colder, but I think from a business owner's perspective, you're like, when you're trying to save the whole thing, you know, that's sometimes the unfortunate decision you have to make. I remember once landing on the tarmac from Sydney back to Brisbane, it was a Sunday night. I was coming back with my family from visiting some friends and I just, I don't know why, I just opened up the bank, my online banking on the tarmac.
And we had an overdraft at the time and I saw we'd just gone $8,000 over the overdraft because we'd had a monthly business credit card payment come out automatically. I had payroll to make in two days' time. And my rule, one thing I'm proud of, we've never ever missed a payroll. Like we paid fortnightly, never missed a payroll. And I was like, how am I in the world going to, like I'm talking a $50,000, $60,000 payment.
coming out in two days time and we're in $60,000 in the red. So one thing that became, be honest, Sam came quite exhausting over that time was just trying to move money around to make ends meet. At first you get your hustle on for that. Over time it actually just becomes a bit exhausting. You kind of get a bit sick of it, of doing it. So yeah, that was, you know.
That was, I guess, the numbers piece, the challenging numbers piece that related back to the unfortunate piece of having to let people go.
Sam Penny (20:43)
At that moment that you just described of opening your phone, your banking app on the tarmac in Brisbane, what was the immediate feeling that went through your body?
John Williamson (20:54)
absolute panic like just firstly like what just happened because you just see the number like hang on how did this happen and then you dive and you go you see oh okay it was this yep so it's legitimate and then yeah then just panic after that so you just you know your heart rate goes up you just sort of start okay you start automatically as you said before business ownership you're on 24-7 you can be
Saturday afternoon and something comes into your head and it starts to concern you or you start thinking, how am going to do that? It can wake you up in the middle of the night. yeah, absolute panic and then try and problem solve straight or going straight to problem solving, how are we going to do this?
Sam Penny (21:38)
So many guests that I have on, Why'd you think you could do that? Have gone out and done some amazing feats, scaling mountains, sailing oceans, being put in situations which just seem insurmountable. How do you personally, when you're faced with such a big challenge like that, how do you personally ⁓ move forward? Some people retreat, some people just step straight into it.
But how does John Williamson step forward and take action?
John Williamson (22:10)
The first thing Sam, when I started going through the challenging times, I really started focusing on my own personal daily habits, routines, and just tried to build a baseline structure. So I used to get up at 6 a.m. and I appreciate getting up early is not for everyone, but I used to get up at 6 a.m. and think, oh yeah, that's pretty good. Then 6 a.m. became 5 a.m. and eventually became 4 a.m.
And I just would get up and I'd have my morning routine where I'd do a couple of things and I'd either go for a run or go to the gym. And it was because I was the 100 % shareholder, can't share this with any of team, your challenges, know, everything you gotta make payroll, try and keep everything as steady as possible. So doing this stuff, my own stuff in the morning was paramount for me sort of trying to.
you know, release frustration, you know, just, you know, physically just really push yourself to sort of, you know, I guess get that out before you went into the day. So you felt like you were properly set up for the day. In addition to that, you know, from about 2017, end of 2016 through to midway through 2018, I was mentored by the former scheduling secretary of the US president in the White House from he was there in the 70s. So
I ran all the time of like Chaney and Rundsfeld and ⁓ Colin Powell. He went into business afterwards and ran very big, large, successful businesses. His first business was ⁓ introduced to him by his former tennis partner in the White House who was George H. Bush. ⁓ So this guy was amazing. Why I asked him to mentor me was because it wasn't just he was successful in business, he was really well-rounded.
had seven kids, he looked after himself, like he was in his 70s at the stage when he was mentoring me. ⁓ He was into his community, was still with his wife. So there's all these elements I really appreciated about him. But one thing, Sam, he said to me once during all this time, and it really stuck with me and it still sticks with me today, is when you're going through challenging times, as you said, you can retreat or you can sort dig in.
But he used to, I'd give him an update on this is what's happening and things are imploding and this is where we're at. And he'd be like, he'd just sit there and he'd just nod, goes, he goes, that's okay. He goes, you can take more load than that. And I was like, okay. The first time he said it to me, it just really, was like, all right. So now, anytime ever since, and particularly during that time, when I get up the next day, I'll be like, just go one more day. Just go again, take the load today.
get to the end of the day and then reset again. And during that time, like I'll be honest with you, Sam, I was hating on the business. I said to my wife, I was like, I just hate this business. And she said, well, that's not a great place for you to be. No, you need to really, we need to work on that. But the thing was I was like, I'm just going to keep grinding my way through this. And not just, when I say grind, Sam, I don't mean like just keep turning up and.
do the same thing. I'm like, no, no, start thinking about what's working, what's not working, where do you need to make changes? And that's from that sort of startup 2018 onwards, that's what we started to have to start working through.
Sam Penny (25:36)
How did you pick up a mentor like that?
John Williamson (25:39)
So I was with an organisation at the time called Entrepreneurs' Organisation. Oh yeah, yeah, okay cool. So I just come back from MIT and as you know, EO every now and then would have a conference somewhere. They went over to Queenstown, but it wasn't long after I'd come back from MIT and we had two young kids, we have three now, but two young kids at the time and I was like, I'm not going away again and leaving my wife on her own with the kids. I'd love to go, but I'm not going to. Anyway.
Sam Penny (25:44)
I used to be a member of that. It was fantastic. Yeah.
John Williamson (26:08)
I saw this presentation, a few people said, John, you gotta watch this guy, I reckon you'd love this. And I did, and then the end he said, know, I do mentor some people. So I did like a 20 page submission to him. He sends you these questions, I end up doing a 20 page submission to him, and then we had a call, yeah, probably a few months later, and then kicked off from there. So yeah, that's how that all happened.
Sam Penny (26:31)
also studied over at MIT. It was a three years, one week a year with, pardon? Yes, birthing of giants. And it was a hundred ⁓ entrepreneurs under 40 from around the world. And it was one of the greatest experiences of my life because it was for the first time being able to be in a room of my peers because...
John Williamson (26:36)
Is that the birthing of giants, Sam? Is that that one? Is it the birthing of giants? ⁓
Sam Penny (26:56)
Being an entrepreneur, being a business owner can be so isolating. Your staff can't relate to you. So how did you, when you're going through these hard times, did you have people around you who got it, who understood the pain that you're going through from that business perspective, that entrepreneurship ⁓ perspective, or did you just feel isolated?
John Williamson (27:19)
Definitely having a mentor helped. ⁓ When I finished doing my work with my mentor, I then had a business coach who was, I tell you what, was very, very helpful. ⁓ We would touch base weekly. We'd probably talk on the, like just briefly sometimes daily. But the biggest thing at that challenging time that he introduced me to, which I still do today and will do in future business as well, was just the really forensic
monitoring of cashflow. So we developed an 18 month week by week cashflow, which I would update each week. So I started using that in 2018 when I was right in the hole. And I, up until the point that I've just exited the business now, we're still using it on a weekly basis, you seven years on. And it has been, it moved Sam from being such a thing like to try and save you.
to the point now where you look at it and the story is completely different and I'm like, and so, and it just was, it was such a useful tool to help you make decisions. If you want to bring on new hires or you want to put some capex into this, you could input that in and run some different modeling on it, you know, conservative through to more than that. ⁓ So it was, so having a business coach was useful beyond that, beyond that, like,
At the time, was probably 2018, 2019, I was having to travel a little bit because we just had some shortfall resourcing in the business. so I had to go back and actually get on the tools for a period of time there. And I had stopped physio properly in 2010. And this really stung. It was the first time my eldest boy, he would have been at the time probably 15.
six, six, he would have been six at the time. said, daddy, how long are you away for? And then I'd come back, how long are you back for? He'd never asked me this before. I'd travel every now and then since the children were born. But it really stunned me because I was like, hey, he's getting aware of this and I'm obviously traveling a lot more now. But even at six, I said, mate, you gotta understand daddy's the last line of the fence. If I fall, this falls, because I'm the last person here. ⁓
So obviously I had my wife support the challenge. I'm not sure if you feel the same way, but support's great Sam, but ultimately you're the one that's got the finger on the trigger and you've got to pull the trigger. yeah, so I had some, definitely had a few people support, it does, they were all external.
typically to the actual ownership of the business. So there is a sense of isolation there as well.
Sam Penny (30:11)
You mentioned the support and a great example is Lisa Blair, an amazing solo sailor who has, I don't know, 15, 18 world records, something like that, but she's solo sailed solo around Antarctica. She talks very much about the preparation and going ad nauseam into the minute details, which it sounds exactly like what you did. But then when the time got tough, when she got dismastered,
thousand nautical miles in the southern ocean, perhaps the most remote place on the planet. And she's having to make these decisions. And these were life or death decisions. All of that background knowledge and almost like muscle memory, memory kicked into play. You face bankruptcy twice. You're at your absolute bottom, John. What kicks in when your back's to the wall and
John Williamson (30:47)
Yeah.
Sam Penny (31:11)
It looks like everything around you is just about to get destroyed.
John Williamson (31:14)
I remember sitting with one of my close friends, we were a drink one night, this was in April 2018, and I said, man, I think in the next week, the business is going to go under. I could just see this is going to be a low point. Thankfully, we just got through that, and then about a year later, the same thing happened, pretty much to 12 months.
And so at that point I was like, I just stopped after that. I was like, okay, you're not doing something right here, clearly. So I then started remodeling and so those acquisitions that had been really nearly brought the business down, I just closed those. Yeah, I said like, I remember doing some modeling. I was like, if I close these, yes, overall our business reduces in size, which a lot of people, a lot of business owners have an issue with go, yeah. ⁓
There's a fantastic book I love reading annually. It's called The Outsiders ⁓ by William Thorndyke. ⁓ And it talks about eight really unconventional but super successful CEOs. One thing a lot of them did, they would shrink their business from time to time if it got better shareholder value. And so I just looked at this, was like, we've tried to ⁓ turn these acquisitions around multiple times. We haven't had the right team in place. We don't... ⁓
it's not working. And so just said, you know what, I'm actually going to cut these. And so that was the starting point that happened probably in around that happened in May 2019. And so I really looked at our numbers first, I said, right, I've got to make some changes and did and number two, you've to just keep turning up every day, you to keep turning up. And yeah, that was a pretty humbling experience, like having to shut those, those businesses down, because that was a fail.
I had my dad helping me with that and that was, that's not, I really felt for him too that he had to be there to witness that for his son. But then basically from there, Sam, we just kept operating with discipline and we slowly started and I'll tell you what, after going into an absolute low in the depth, another great lesson that came out of this is it is amazing what can happen in 12 months time, either down or up.
because the next 12 months, we just started building the business back up, started building up cash buffers. so it, yeah, and maybe if I can just, and we can come back to this, but if I can just accelerate a little bit. So two years later, when I sold 80 % of the business, because basically I came out of that low point and around midway through 2020, I just sort of stopped and I was like, okay, we can breathe a bit again.
You know, we've got good cash buffer here. We're operating with discipline. We're really conscious of our expenses. Yeah, we're bringing on new work. Yeah, and we've managed our way successfully through that COVID period. Like I remember going to the team saying, guys, we're all going to need to take a bit of a salary cut for a period of time. And that was hard because, yeah, as we all know, that was a very fast evolving situation. And people are asking me, well, how long is this going to be from?
I can't tell you. But what I was proud of when I sort of monitored it because I was monitoring our costs so much, when I realized we'd sort of probably hit our bottom and plateau with that, I was like, right, I think we're okay. So just, anything I owed anyone from reduction in wages, I just paid them back straight away. was like, cool, we can pay you back. So I was really proud of that because I remember speaking to mates and they're like, we had to do the same thing and we never got paid back by our companies and stuff. So yeah, I was proud of that. then,
I got to that midway through 2020 Sam and I was just like, all right, what do want to do now? You've sort of, do you want to keep going on this road or do you want us to perhaps look for further opportunities for your team and for yourself? Cause I want to start learning again. I was like, I've just been sort of surviving for a couple of years. I was like, I want to start learning again. So do we join a larger organization? and so we, started that process with a national group and who I'd known for a number of years and
yeah, fast forward to midway through 2021, I sold 80 % of the business. I'll never forget, I took my family on a trip up to far North Queensland at the end of that. And as part of that transition, I had to change the vehicle structure of the business. So we went from a corporate trustee for a trust into a PTYLTD, so this external party could take on shares. And that had to be a cash-free, debt-free new entity. And so I had about half a million dollars in debt still to pay off.
from bank loans and stuff. And I remember we were holidaying and I said the family was going to the beach. said, look, I'll be there soon. I've just got to take care of a couple of things. And so I got on the phone to the bank and just said, yeah, I want to pay out these debts. And so I remember walking to the beach and going, I have a debt-free business now and I just paid it out in cash. And you, I don't think it's too often, I don't know, for me, Sam, I don't think it's too often in life. You kind of have periods of time where you go, I'm really proud of myself. And I remember walking to beach going,
Sam Penny (36:15)
You
John Williamson (36:29)
this is such a different place you are in now compared to where you were a couple of years ago. So yeah, so that was a really significant moment.
Sam Penny (36:39)
It's great how you talk about feeling that sense of pride, being proud of yourself. When you're in those moments of facing bankruptcy, not just once, but twice, you're having to look in at yourself and assess your own personal capabilities.
John Williamson (36:57)
Yeah.
Sam Penny (36:57)
What I often see with so many people when they hit rock bottom is that they just feel lost. They don't know what their next step forward is. When you go back, you focus on the fundamentals, whether it's the fundamentals of your business or just fundamentals of trying to live your life again. Each of those steps that you took after hitting rock bottom, how calculated were they? And was it just going back to the basics of what
life sustaining is.
John Williamson (37:29)
Yeah, I would say it was very calculated, Sam. I was sort of just talking to myself going, come on, mate, you've got more in you than this. Like, you're far more capable than this. This is not going to sink you. So as I said, I already had my personal sort of habits and routines in place. I really doubled down on those more. Yeah, and I think also when you're at that low point, you're kind of like,
I'm kind of at the bottom anyway. So I remember one of the landlords and one of those businesses I'd acquired because I said, man, I've got to shut the business. And his lawyer was saying, take this guy to court, get the money off him now. And this landlord was, I liked him because he was old school. Owned a lot of property. And I remember sitting down with him and he was saying, my lawyer's telling me I should take you to court. And I just looked him in the face and said, do what you want. I said, you do what you want. said, I guarantee you I will pay you. I just cannot pay you now.
I can pay you in increments, but I can't pay you now. probably about a year later, I remember doing a, I was doing a job, a consulting job for Construct Health and I was down in Dubbo and I was just finished the day and I was going for a walk at the end of the day. And he called me up and he said, Hey, I'm just calling up to say thank you. goes, you know, you were true to your word. ⁓
most people would have run and you said you'd pay and you made it all whole. And again, you talk about self-pride and how you feel about yourself. There are moments where, sure, when you're letting people go, you don't feel great about yourself at all, even though you're clear on the reason why you're making that decision. But when you get a call like that, that makes you feel much better about yourself, because you're stuck with it. The easy thing would have been to run.
but you're stuck with it. So, no, I was very calculated, Sam, in terms of, what I was doing myself personally. And then, yes, as you said, I went back to basics with the business. was like, let's look at the P &L. Let's communicate with the team, go, this is what we need to focus on. This is something we can't do right now. This is something we can do. If this is something we wanna do, then we need to hit this mark before we even look at spending that money. really got...
everyone into that mindset and then just rinsed and repeated.
Sam Penny (39:48)
That moment that you described when you're walking down to the beach to meet your family in North Queensland, you've just paid off all your debt. And that feeling of pride that you described, I often see, and this is my theory on life, John, take it or leave it. But people like you and I who experience extreme lows and extreme highs really does make us feel alive.
John Williamson (40:07)
Yeah.
Sam Penny (40:17)
because it allows us to appreciate those highs even more. Whereas if we go through life without pushing ourselves, without testing the boundaries and what our personal limits are, then we're never really going to have those moments like you described of walking down to the beach, high-fiving yourself.
John Williamson (40:37)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would agree. And an interesting counter to that. ⁓
When you do have the extra, and I don't know if you've experienced this. ⁓ because one thing, when I, when I, you know, probably just quickly going back to your question before, I was going through those sort of, you know, the low points, I was like, you know, one of things I did, was, you know, I sort of, I sort of stepped up some of my daily habits and routines. also decided I needed to get myself mentally fitter for what was still to come, because I didn't know when the end point was. And so that's when I sort of,
I ended up taking on, I got asked to go and do a 100 kilometre ultra trail race and I'd only ever raced a half marathon before. And I just remember thinking, when I got asked to do this, I was like, that's going to take me to a really dark place. And the lady who I met through a lot of that sort of work, back to your point, she said to me, we were talking about once and she runs, she's had some really successful businesses and some really big highs and some big lows as well.
And we were talking, we were out on the trails once just doing a training run and we were talking and she said, oh, it's funny, once you've experienced the highs, but you've also experienced the lows, you become a bit numb to it in future. And I was like, you're right. it's great for the low because you don't panic as much. go, okay, this isn't great, but we'll work through this. But what I think is sad Sam sometimes, because I feel like I'm quite a passionate person about life.
And so when you have a high, you don't let yourself almost go into that childish, childlike sort of joy of it as much. You're like, yeah, that's good. But you're sort of aware of the bigger picture and the history and so you're like, well, that's great, but let's just be mindful of that and keep moving forward. So yeah, you don't get those moments. You're right, you don't try and push your edge a little bit. And I know, think not to get too deep, Sam, but I think a lot of people...
probably in life go through without trying to find their edge enough. Because when you do, ⁓ sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but it's a great experience.
Sam Penny (42:53)
Well, that's exactly
what this podcast is all about, John. And it's the essence of ordinary people who have done batshit crazy things and said yes to the impossible. You mentioned about how you needed to strengthen your body and your mind. You're going through some pretty tough times. Most people would have just walked away, just throwing the towel. Yep, that's it. I cannot take any more. But it seems that you decided to toughen yourself up. You mentioned you
you joined up for your first ultra marathon. What did getting physically active, moving your body do for you both physically and mentally of handling these really tough times?
John Williamson (43:33)
⁓ So definitely ⁓ on a day-to-day basis, it sort of gave me this identity of this is how you're going to turn up every day. And so you'd have your morning sort of routine, which part of which involved gym or running for me or boxing. And ⁓ my other thought with it was like, go and do something that's mentally really challenging ⁓ and physically challenging because that way when you go back to your business,
even when you go through some short term challenges, there you go. Once you have that initial visceral response of like, this is not great. And you go, hang on, you've done harder things than this before in your life. And you've got evidence of that. So just breathe and work your way through this. And so I kind of wanted it a little bit, not to go with David Goggins, but David Goggins talks about, I think the cookie jar. And so sometimes when you're doubting yourself, you can go back into the cookie jar and remember,
Yeah, pick out a cookie thing, yeah, that's right, I did that thing. ⁓ I guess for me on a far smaller scale, that was what I was doing. I was like, well, just you're trying to build up an evidence of why you've got more capability in you. ⁓ So when you do come onto those inevitable challenges within business, can sort of handle those. You go, I've got more capability, I've got more in me than what this is actually presenting right now.
Sam Penny (44:55)
And I think it is stepping into the uncomfortable, out of your comfort zone, having acts of bravery every day. And you and I both have had so many moments of having to turn up every day, having to have these moments of bravery, whether it's making the call, having the conversation that you've been putting off, but even just getting up out of bed, getting out onto the road and moving your body. You're certainly one that
has embraced the uncomfortable and I would suggest that it now makes you feel comfortable. I want to know you, you stepped into a boxing ring in front of 1000 people. You haven't got a history of boxing. Why on earth did you think that I'm going through absolutely everything jumping into a ring in front of 1000 people is going to strengthen me even further.
John Williamson (45:49)
So I had a boxing match in March 2019 and I'd been boxing with a boxing coach since about 2010 and a number of people had said to me along the way, oh you're going to have a fight at some stage. was like, no, no, I'm just doing this for training. And back when things were more comfortable Sam, I'd just skim over that answer and I'd be like, oh yeah. But deep down I actually knew there was not a complete truth to that.
And so when I was in this depth time, was like, and I've just done this 100K Ultra, this first one, and then I was like, right, I wanna have a fight now. Because I was like, because you've been saying, I just do this for training. I'm like, but ultimately, if you've been honest with yourself, you're actually scared of stepping into the ring. And that's okay. That's okay, because you know, no one really wants to step in the ring and get knocked out. But I was like, but you're going to lean into this and you're going to do the work.
You're going make it a project, do the work and you're going to get yourself ready. And my boxing coach, he's a legend. He's a former Yugoslavian weight division champion and was just amazing and very technical. So I was like, let's go. I'm ready to go. He's like, you're not ready yet. You're not ready yet. And to the point I was like, can you just let me get in the ring and fight? But he kept holding me back. then finally, to the point where I had this boxing match in March that year.
As I said, my second bout of bankruptcy was about to come a month later, sort of thing. But again, having these experiences, Sam, I remember that second bout of after having this huge high of this boxing match. mean, it's viscerally one of the most alive times I've ever felt in my life, waiting to go out into the ring. ⁓ I'll never forget that feeling. I had all this business challenge around me and all I could think about was I can't believe I'm about to go out in front of all these people and have a fight.
⁓ But it's happening, it's like a train that's not stopping. So I remember when going through that challenging near-bankruptcy time afterwards, I was like, nah, you've got more in you than this, you've just proved it, so get this sorted out. And that was really the turning point then.
Sam Penny (48:01)
So all this training in a lot of darkness, a lot of pain, that was all about survival, but then came, I would suggest a new challenge, John, of letting go of the thing that you built. You sold 80 % of Construct Health in 2021. You've just stepped out the last 20 % of that. What does it feel like to walk away from something that you've poured 17 years of your life into?
John Williamson (48:24)
Sam, I'll be honest, this is the seventh week since I left, so I finished on Friday the 4th of July, so if you're in the US, that's Independence Day, which I thought was quite ironic. It hasn't hit me yet, like it really hasn't. So I said I'm going to take myself off on a road trip for a week, just solo road trip down into New South Wales, visit some friends, a bit of time out in the trails, chugging some cold water, just have a bit of a think about some stuff.
I originally was just going to take three weeks, a mini retirement of three weeks. And I was like, oh, no, I'll make it four weeks. And then I was like, well, you've done four weeks of leave before, so like last year. So you know what that feels like, maybe go five weeks. And so I lasted about six weeks till the end of last week. I was like, okay, I think it's time to start winding things up, because I've got some new projects I'm working on and I'm excited about. But it hasn't hit me yet.
I'm kind of waiting for it. Even my last few, probably last month, I did my last sort of quarterly trip out through central Queensland. And Sam, I was driving roads that I've driven in some way, shape or form for the last 22 years. Because some of those roads I drove when I used to work for another organization before I went to England. I was like, John, there's been times in your history you've been like, I wonder if I'll ever not be driving these roads. Yeah, like I wonder, when you're in the hole, you're like, is this me forever?
And I'm like, this is your last formalized trip out here. And so you're trying to force the feeling, just nothing was coming up. It just felt normal. yeah, nothing's really hit me yet. I am proud that I've been able to get to that point where I've been able to have something that went up and then it went down, then it's come up and I've sort of exited now. Because I know a lot of business owners don't, they would like that potentially as an option.
and they don't get it. So yeah, I guess I'm proud of that. Yeah, probably a little bit, of course I'm sad in some ways as well, Sam. I'm just probably, I don't know, I'm waiting for the feeling to hit me a little bit more and it just hasn't yet. So I probably can't answer you fully at this point, but that'd be my feelings thus far with it.
Sam Penny (50:39)
So I'd suggest that you're suppressing a lot of those feelings because you've got Col Ferret Is that pronounced right? Col Ferret, this comes in, it's your next mountain. ⁓ Col Ferret, it's an Alpine pass, isn't it, on the border of Switzerland and Italy. Firstly, why did you choose that name?
John Williamson (50:47)
yet call for a holdings yet
Yep.
⁓ So, yeah, in the last few, last three years I've been, I've actually raced across the pass in some European ⁓ ultra trail races. And it's just a great spot. Like, you know, it's a brutal climb. I remember doing it last year in the World Finals ⁓ week at UTMB. And I remember speaking to a guy from Belgium just down at Univouz, which is the checkpoint just before you start the climb.
and it was hot and I remember sitting down with him, I'd met him on the trails doing some recon at the start of the week before the race. And I said to him, said, have you done this climb before? goes, no. said, mate, it's a bit of a beast. I said, so just get yourself ready. Cause you've got people just lying there on their backs, like just absolutely cooked. I said, it's a bit of a beast. just get yourself ready and then get going. Like, cause there's no cover. It's just full exposure to the sun. But when you get to the top, you're right on the,
you know, the Swiss Italian board and like a lot of people say, I love to travel. So you're just standing there and you're like, I'm looking this way to Italy, this way to Switzerland. And yeah, it's, so it's, I don't know, there's just a lot about it that really sort of, I find very inspiring. And that's what I want Col Ferret to be like, Col Ferret is a holding company has a, you know, I've got a 30 to 40 year projection of my, ideally my involvement with it and ideally for it to go on beyond that. And so,
Yeah, there's a lot of, I guess, similarities between the experience I've had with Col Ferret, the actual mountain pass, and what I want to create with the whole co-going forwards.
Sam Penny (52:36)
So what's the purpose of it?
John Williamson (52:38)
the purpose of the holding company. ⁓ So it's all themed around, I've sort of chosen the theme around the family slash home unit. So I'm looking at, in ⁓ due course, I'll be raising capital, raising investment capital, and we'll be looking to invest in probably two main areas. Because obviously there's a lot of ⁓ sub-verticals of that whole family home theme. so as we know, finance is obviously really important to a family.
Sam Penny (52:39)
Yes.
John Williamson (53:08)
So I'm looking at making an investment into a financial arm. But also that will probably be more of a partnering with a group that's very well established in that area. But the second part of it's all probably more back to my background. So I come from healthcare services and I'll be taking a step slightly sideways with our investment thesis. We'll be looking at med tech, health tech and life sciences.
And obviously that's, know, so there's some really amazing businesses both in Australia and abroad and that will be looking to make investments ⁓ of significance into those sorts of organisations, you know, over the long term.
Sam Penny (53:50)
⁓ Of course, John, your story is just not for investors or entrepreneurs. It's for anyone staring down their own rock bottom moment. So for anyone listening right now, who's in the storm, the bank's calling, the stress is crushing, they're not sure they could hold on. What would be the first thing you'd tell them?
John Williamson (54:09)
Take a breath and I actually generally mean that like actually start like Start doing something like breath work like something that's going to relax you a little bit and do that on the daily So but but yeah, take a breath first often You need to start problem solving this so you need to start going all right You need to understand what's not working and what is working because there'll be some things that are working in your business but because the
the negativity of what's not working is so foreboding. You will probably not see that other, the stuff that you're actually, this this part's not too bad. And I think if you can go through, sequentially go through your business. look, bring up your profit and loss first off as a starting point and go, well, what's working, what's not working? Once you can sort of basically silo, you go, this is the stuff that's not working. This is the stuff that's caused me all this feeling and this challenge. is why the bank's calling me. This is why this is happening.
then you can start setting your plan for that. It's no different to like planning out like so, I've got an ultra down in the Grampians in Victoria at the end of this year and I'm then aiming to get across to do one, a big one, like the biggest I've ever done called Tour de Jeanne in Italy next year, which is like 330k. So you've got a plan for all that sort of stuff. You go, right, what's my training schedule? What have I got to do? What have I got to, I don't know enough about this.
It's no different with trying to then problem solve and work your way out of this. So it's about getting clear on what your problems are and then setting your plan in place for how you're going to address those. Yeah, if the bank's calling you, the bank, they ultimately don't want you to fall over. They want you to carry on. So then go, right, cool. I've gotta come and see you. It's like no different to what I did with the landlord. I was like, I've got a problem. ⁓ This is where I'm at. Be honest with them and go, but this is my intent.
I wanna trade out of this, I wanna keep stepping forward. So what can we do? They wanna be part of the solution as well. So definitely to recap, definitely breathe first off, because you need to get yourself right. So you need to make sure that you're looking after yourself as well. If you're drinking a lot, you're like alcohol-wise, you need to dropping that out. You need to really start centering yourself a bit and build up a structure.
you need to have your own strong daily structure that you're going to commit to because that's going to give you that nice baseline that you can then start problem solving from. And then as I said, yeah, really get clear on what's actually not working in the business and even just seeing some of the things that are working in the business, that'll automatically make you feel a bit better about yourself.
Sam Penny (56:47)
I think John, when people face big challenges like you and I have, like all of my guests have, the sense of that challenge can feel so overwhelming. But when we break it down into what are the three things that I need to do today? What are those small steps that I need to do today? Because progress is always better than staying still. And regardless of how big that next step is,
John Williamson (56:48)
Thank
Sam Penny (57:17)
Progress is progress. And when we focus on just the next step, the next foot forward, then all of the overwhelming focus of the big issue goes away. And our focus goes to then what's that next step?
John Williamson (57:32)
Yep.
Yep, yeah, absolutely. So, ⁓ like for me, yeah, one of those would be what are you doing personally today for yourself to sort of keep yourself level, but then also to understanding what is the big challenge and what do need to do today to, as you say, make some progress forward to that and then checking back in with yourself at the end of the day. So what is it I need to do?
when am I doing it today? So don't just go, I'm going to do this today, then you get to the end of the day, go I didn't do it. I'm like, okay, so when was it scheduled in? So what is it I'm doing? Scheduled in and then checking at the end of the day that you've actually done it. And if you can just repeat that, then you get the reps up, the momentum starts, the compounding begins. And then as you say, you're making progress, you go, actually we're moving towards solving this problem. The biggest thing with that is just trying to be consistent and then cut out all the other excess noise.
Like, just go, we need to dial in. These are the critical things, because you've analyzed at the start, once you've taken a breath, you've gone, okay, well, this is actually the real problems here. And then just, you know, working through that sequentially and consistently, that's the stuff that over time, it's not going to happen straight away, but that's the stuff that you'll grind out of in time and go, actually, we're getting somewhere. And then you feel a huge sense of pride, because you're like, you've done this.
Sam Penny (58:51)
It's in true.
Yeah, it's interesting, John. One of the first things I do in the morning is to write my top five tasks for today. I actually, I never go more than five. And then of those five, choose my top one and I ensure that I get that top one thing done today. Even if I don't get the other four done, I'm at least achieving my most important task. And just imagine if you only achieve one task a day, there's 365 things of your most important priorities.
John Williamson (59:22)
Yes.
Sam Penny (59:25)
getting done in a whole year. But also at the end of the day, I have a little gratitude section on my page and I always write it down on paper. There's a lot of science. If you write stuff down, it leaves in mind, goes on the paper, it's anchored. Your mind can change it, but when it's on paper, you can't. And a lot of ⁓ gratitude and reflection at the end of the day goes a long way.
John Williamson (59:48)
Yep, absolutely. I completely agree. I completely agree about the pen and paper. Like I've got, I've made some notes as we've gone along here in front of me. ⁓ That's, I've always found, particularly during those challenging times, but even now, if you're looking forward, you know, and having what's what I call more fun conversations with yourself, pen and paper is always the way I sort of choose to go with it. But that reflection piece, as you said, is...
is important because then it shows you that you said I'm going to do this thing, you scheduled it, you've done it and yeah, it's just that self-acknowledgement that yeah, that I have done that and I can do that and so let's go again the next day.
Sam Penny (1:00:32)
John, faced so many hard times, but also had some great times. So why? Why do you think you could do that?
John Williamson (1:00:40)
With the...
When the business was going through a challenging time, Sam, I think for me, did I think I could do that? If I'm being honest, I don't think I knew if I could do it or not, but I knew I was going to keep turning up. ⁓ And then obviously as you keep turning up, you analyze, you change some things, you start to see a path. You're like, okay, I've just gotta keep on this path and keep moving forwards. ⁓
The other probably part, perhaps in this case it's a bit of a blessing, I was of myself, I had a bigger belief in myself, was like, on, you've got more capability than, you've done things in the past that were far more impressive than this. This is not going to be the thing that's going to sink you. So you start to get a bit of a grit and determination about you there as well. When I've then gone on to, for some of my, I guess,
you have boxing, the ultra trail running and stuff. Like some of my friends, people I know they're like, like, yeah, I know for example, you've had Paul Watkins on previously on your podcast. Yeah, he's done some crazy, crazy stuff. You speak to the everyday person, they're like, they just can't understand what you've just done sort of thing. And they'll go, well, you had, why did you think you do that? like, because I just was like, I reckon I can do this. Like, yeah, as simple as that sounds, you're like, I'm going to have to work to get to that point, but I...
I genuinely think I've got a capability in me to do this. And so I think there's just gotta be, you've gotta have that ⁓ self belief one, but also that willingness, and this comes back to something you said earlier, Sam, that willingness to put yourself at the edge where you potentially could fail. I remember in 2023, I was doing a race over in Switzerland and it was coming into the second night and
had about probably 12 hours left ahead of me and the sun was about to go down, we were up in the Swiss Alps, it was beautiful, but I was so tired Sam. Like I literally, if you said you can do anything John, I literally would have dropped on the spot and closed my eyes. I was that tired. Sun's about to go down, I know I've got at least another 12 hours, I'm going to have to go through complete darkness, climb some more mountains, come up on sunrise on the other side of it. And all I wanted to do was quit. I literally, I'd never had this feeling before like this. And I was like, this is really weird.
I'm really tired, I'm battling with this thought about wanting to quit. And yet, I didn't quit. And I remember the day after the race, sitting there and I was so sore. My body was like, my quads were shredded, my shoulders are sore. Sitting there having a coffee with my family before we leave to go back to Italy. And I just remember sitting there in the sun in Vervier in the Swiss Alps. And just, again, you have one of those moments of absolute self-pride. You're like,
because you didn't give up, you just kept at it sort of thing. I think, yeah, and the more you have those experiences, they'd start to reinforce themselves. You hang on, you've done this before, so what's next? yeah, think, yeah, that's probably a long-winded way of answering your question, Sam, and I hope I've done that justice.
Sam Penny (1:03:54)
You've done a great job. Now, John, I always love to finish with the Brave Five. It's five random questions. Don't expect one to lead on to the other. Are you ready?
John Williamson (1:04:01)
Okay. Yep.
Let's give it a crack.
Sam Penny (1:04:05)
All right, when life's messy, what's your guilty go to?
John Williamson (1:04:09)
⁓ Okay, Natural Confectionery Company Party Mix lollies. But I'm not talking like the small one, I don't bother with that. It's a family pack, it's gotta be the family pack. Yeah, that is like the number one lolly. So, yeah, things are down, I will go, and I have been known to monster a whole pack in one hit.
Sam Penny (1:04:18)
family pack.
Fair enough after running 100 K's boxing three rounds. What's the first thing you eat?
John Williamson (1:04:37)
⁓ Well, the first thing, well probably my best memory of that, I finished a race in Chamonix in the French Alps in 22 and my crew, my support crew handed me panne chocolat, like one of those French pastries. That was excellent. So I would probably say, yeah, that would be, I'd probably have a beer before I'd have anything else, but that would be something I've had that I've really enjoyed.
Sam Penny (1:05:03)
Alright, if you could text 2008John one line, what would it say?
John Williamson (1:05:08)
Do the work.
Sam Penny (1:05:09)
All right, what's one small daily habit that keeps you sane?
John Williamson (1:05:15)
just mobility work. 10 minutes of mobility work every morning. About 10 minutes, yeah, before I go and do anything more active, So it's a combination of sort of stretching, sort of yoga, that style of thing, yeah. So it's a great way to sort just get your body sort of moving a little bit and warmed up, particularly first thing when you get up and then before you go and get to the gym or go for a run or whatever you're going to do.
Sam Penny (1:05:20)
Just 10 minutes.
Describe what you do.
All right, last one on the Brave 5, you ready? Okay, what's... What's the best bit of advice you've ever stolen?
John Williamson (1:05:50)
⁓ Sam, that's a great one to finish on.
This bit of ice will be stolen.
I'd probably, unfortunately not to be original, but I'd probably go back to, actually no, sorry, I'll change course. Someone said this to me last year and it's just, I'm in my mid 40s now, so it's actually really resonated with me. They say, you wanna do something now, don't wait, get it done now. Because you might say, I'll put that off for like five years, 10 years when I'm in a better position to do it.
and you may not get that five or 10 years, or you may get there and not be able to do this thing. just that, and this was from someone who was probably 30 years older than me, and who had accomplished a lot in their life. So that was something I've really taken on board since recently. And if I can just add one other, the other one would be what I said earlier was ⁓ just that advice that you can take more weight. That's always something that's stuck with me during hard times is
That saying will just pop into my head.
Sam Penny (1:06:53)
John, your story really reminds us that bravery doesn't always make the news. sometimes it's a founder at midnight staring down numbers that don't add up.
and deciding not to walk away. Sometimes it's stepping into the pain, running towards it because that's the only way through. And maybe that's the lesson we can all take. Rock bottom isn't the end. It's a place where you decide who you're going to become next. John, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us. How can people connect with you?
John Williamson (1:07:24)
So once again, Sam, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed it. So people can find me on LinkedIn. ⁓ John Williamson, ⁓ there's obviously a few John Williamson's around. I am not the singer. So ⁓ yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm also ⁓ doing some business advisory work through an organization called, which I've started up called Unventured.life. ⁓ That website will be live soon. That's all about.
applying the principles of challenge and adventure to business ownership and C-suite executives. So yeah, there two ways that people can reach me.
Sam Penny (1:08:01)
Excellent. I'll
make sure I pop all of those links into the show notes. And for listeners, here's my challenge. Where in your life are you avoiding the real pain? Where the real growth would come from running into it? I'm Sam Penny. This has been Why'd Think You Could Do That? Until next time, say yes to the impossible and keep moving forward.
